Is the Uechi Side Snap Kick Useless and Potentially Harmful?

[Bill Glasheen]

To be fair...

I mentioned above that I have my own shearing technique for a sokuto (foot blade). It's a bit off the traditional beaten path, but it's a good one.

Say you're being accosted by someone (rapist, thug, drunk) and you want to get away from them. And they've grabbed you. Well...

Extend your foot blade out and place it on the shin just below the knee joint. If the person is in front, you might try placing your right foot on their left shin, or left-on-right. That way you're away from their muscle tissue, and touching nothing but skin over bone.

Then... stomp down their shin with a shearing motion of your foot blade. If you're at the right angle (say you did this with them grabbing from behind), you can finish the shear with a stomp down on the top of their foot where all those bones are. Put all your body weight on the stomp.

Practice this GENTLY with bare feet. Then practice it EVEN MORE GENTLY with shoes on. You'll soon discover for yourself how this can work, and what angles work best.

With a shoe on, the inside blade of your shoe works just as well. This is where having an instep front kick comes in valuable. Different angles create different possibilities, and suggest different parts of your shoe edge for point of contact. Only the (lack of) sickness of your sadistic mind will hold you back.

I was about to say you don't need to do any follow-up if you do this with gusto. But that wouldn't be any fun...

- Bill

[Dana Sheets]

The only reasons the hinge motion would damage a joint are 1) if the practitioner is letting the movement go to the point that the joint locks and the joint itself is the break for an accelerating technique or 2) if the power is being thrown at an angle inconsistent with how the joint is meant to move. Neither of those are what I teach.

[Bill Glasheen]

Fewer joints involved in a simple motion means more angle of movement within the moving joints. More movement of a joint means more shear within that joint. More shear over time means less time it takes to get a repetitive motion injury.

It's all simple physics.

Go to my chiropractic argument. A supple spine where ALL joints move freely is a spine less prone to back problems with everyday use. If you ever have to fuse two vertebrae together (due to disk injury), then the remaining vertebral spaces get more sheer due to more movement. You're more prone to injury. As a back surgeon friend of mine once said, "When I have to do surgery, it's the beginning of the end. We try to avoid that."

All I try to do is get more joints involved in doing both my kicks and my backfist motion. In addition to the geometry and biophysics involved, it also looks more like a natural athletic motion. I'm constantly trying to resolve what we do with respect to what other "natural athletes" do. Often I can get all athletes to read from the same hymnal.

If you think I'm full of poo - and it happens - we can agree to disagree.

- Bill

[Dana Sheets]

I maintain scatological neutrality.

Ideally every technique is performed at the optimal distance with the least wasted movement and cleanest projection of power. <i>♫Dream a little dream....♫</i>

I think there are two discussions going on here that muddy the water. I had posted with regards to learning the blade-of-the-foot snap kick from point zero. Many points are now being thrown out about perfecting, optimizing, and using said kick.

I've posted about breaking down the power chain into trainable chunks for the person for whom this kick remains an enigma after the usual introduction. Kihon, if you will. Waza is not kihon.

I think we both agree that having students try to reproduce optimal results by starting at the end creates reproductions of movement rather than an understanding of movement, power, and principle.

[Dana Sheets]

You've got me completely flummoxed as to how you throw either a shomen geri or a uechi sokuto geri without using the knee joint.

[Bill Glasheen]

You've got me completely flummoxed as to how you throw either a shomen geri or a uechi sokuto geri without using the knee joint.

My bad.

I use the knee joint, Dana. But I do so while also using that leg's hip joint (flexion to lift knee, extension to extend leg), the ankle (to keep the hitting surface facing the target in case jammed), the support leg hip socket (rotation within) and even the lower abdominals (booty out, booty tuck).

We may be arguing semantics.

I'm like you. I break things down, and then I put them back together again. That way the student can see how all the pieces work - one piece at a time. It's the getting it together thing that's the tricky part. Often it's not simultaneous movement, but rather sequential. And that's where the secret sauce is - a.k.a. "chi."

- Bill

[Dana Sheets]

Sequential summation of joint motion isn't chi. I'll poo-poo that one.
Sequential summation of joint motion is li.

Yi-->Chi-->Li
(Intent -->Energy/Pressure-->Muscle Power)
Yi (mindfulness), Chi (internal energy) and Li (physical force expression/external power)

Now that we measure all electrical impulse in the body and brainwaves, we've got an more complete picture of "Yi" or intent.

Chi is pressure -- the heat that pushes the lid off the steaming pot of rice. As we've known for many a thousand year, no pressure (blood, air, and other fluids moving through the body), you're dead.

You need well flowing electrical current, fluids, and air to have good health, good movement, and to develop and express muscular power (Li). A deficiency or excess in fluid flow, airflow, or electrical current flow will imbalance the system and lead to poor outcomes.

See...chi is simple. I don't know why people get so worked up over it.

[Bill Glasheen]

Well actually... SSM isn't just muscle power. It's NEUROmuscular power. Understanding the how and why of that brings folks away from simple bench presses to why a white man CAN jump.

The muscle to neuromuscular transition is the secret sauce. But you need to know the secret handshake before you can learn it.

- Bill

[robb buckland]

Pain points don't work when you're neurohormonally enhanced. Reflex points do.

Yet another glaring example of the simplicity of what we do it's been in front of you all the time ....'just do it'....'trust the machine ' .

[stephen mcnally]

....And then he grabbed his partner. And then... he put his sokuto in the femoral crease of his partner, and thrust. Oooo... The first time you've seen this done, the "Aha!" hits you like a ton of bricks. THIS is the reason for the Uechi hojoundo technique all along. Side kick my ass; you're breaking your partner's center by front-kicking them in the fold of the hip. It makes their butt go out and the head come forward. And then they're your bitch.

Hi Bill, This image to came to mind when I read your description :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNRbhDu6 ... re=related

Steve.

[Bill Glasheen]

Yep, that's about it.

Kiyohide isn't as selective in his targets as I'm suggesting, but he has the right idea. He uses his foot blade (soku to) in front-kick fashion to go after the joint folds. That sets up what he really wants to do.

He appears to have a favorite leg, which I believe is why he's going sort of "against the grain" around the hip. But he's strong enough to make it work. If you get the foot blade to match the femoral crease (right to right, or left to left) then the foot fits the crease like hand in glove, and the person buckles as if someone pushed a button on their body. In other words, perfect placement is kind of like putting poison on the end of your spear. Not necessary, but it sure magnifies the impact.

He's really good at the shot to the back of the knee. He choreographed his own Kenyukai Yakusoku Kumite (equivalent to Kanei's Dan Kumite) where his students practice that. I personally like using my foot instep to fit in the back of the knee. But whatever... use what works. He's scary good at what he does.

- Bill

[KentuckyUechi]

[quote]The Uechi side kick as I learned it was somewhere between a snap and thrust kick which was directed at a 45 degree angle to the front. I originally did it with some hip movement as well as the snap or extension of the lower leg.

To be fair to my Original Instructor, the way I "learned" it may not have been the way I was "taught". I had previously studied TKD, and this may have affected my interpretation of this "odd" new kick.


[quote]G.E.M. instructed me

Once again I may have misinterpreted the direction (online) that I was receiving. I was hearing one thing, but seemed to be seeing another on video demonstrations.
After Bill's Detailed explanation of precisely how to execute this kick, I've been practicing it correctly (I hope), and become quite comfortable with it.

However, I recently purchased and read Ihor Rymaruk's book on Uechi Karate. When I looked at the illustrations in the section re: this kick my first thought was that; it was being done the same "incorrect" way I had always done it. It wasn't until I read the explanation and looked at the illustration MUCH closer, that I realized it was being illustrated just as George and Bill had explained.

So it seems IMO that the foot positioning and direction of the kick, can give the illusion that the leg is doing something entirely different. Just a thought.

[AAAhmed46]

Pulled it off a few times in kickboxing with pleasing results.

[robb buckland]

I too had great results with the kick in the ring , I used it as a counter kick to to shut down the high hard style of kicking I faced from Kevin "Hurricane" Hudson and Ronnie Copeland of South & North Carolina respectively.

When we first introduced Kickbox Fitness to the Health club industry I remember Joe Lewis directing those guys to try to get me too "at least look like he kicks like us " . My hips always prefered the Uechi style to the Bill Wallace style.

[Bill Glasheen]

My hips always prefered the Uechi style to the Bill Wallace style.

Apples and oranges.

The real truth is most karateka don't know how to throw a simple front kick. It's one of the most useful kicks in self-defense, and yet the vast majority of junior karateka prefer something very gross motor like a roundhouse. They think the front kick (and all its many permutations including the Uechi sokuto geri) is just a terrible kick. Not terrible kick; terrible execution.

ALL those kicks are good. But don't confuse one for the other.

- Bill