Political correctness can kill - Part IV

Bill's forum was the first! All subjects are welcome. Participation by all encouraged.

Moderator: Available

Valkenar
Posts: 1316
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2000 6:01 am
Location: Somerville, ma.

Post by Valkenar »

Panther wrote: While the story makes the case that "Poppy fields in Afghanistan are [like] the cornfields of Ohio", that is not really accurate.
As I'm sure you probably realize, the point is that there are lots and lots of people whose livelihoods are dependent on the poppies. If we burn those poppies, not only do we ensure that every last one of them hates us with a passion, but we also put them in a position where they are hopeless and they have nothing to do all day. Not a good situation.

Now if we really want to stop the heroin but avoid the animosity, we could shell out a lot of money. We could commit to 25 years of paying salaries for former heroin traders. Then we could ask them to burn the fields. But that's obviously politically untenable because most of us can't stomach paying bribe/extortion money. So we do nothing, because if we just burn their fields we're screwed strategically.
User avatar
Glenn
Posts: 2186
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska

Post by Glenn »

Panther wrote: That's probably true... I heard about it in the last six months or so

Actually thinking about this further, just because the article related an incident that happened in summer 2008 does not mean something similar did not also happen in summer 2009 and/or summer 2010...it seems to be a consistent high-level policy. So you could have been correct that your friend was relaying a story about events that occurred during the past 6 months.
Panther wrote: I was just relaying the frustration of some of our folks who've been on the ground there as those frustrations were relayed to me. There's more to it as well...
I don't doubt for a second that not everyone on the ground agreed with the soldiers quoted in that article I found. That tends to be the nature of most front-line jobs, frustration about the decisions being made behind the scenes. And a lot of that frustration comes because the front-line people are rarely given the reasons behind the decisions, they are just told what to do. Even if they were given the reasons, some like your friend would probably never agree with the decision not to destroy the fields, and who could blame him when he has seen the effects first hand. It's a tough catch-22.
Glenn
User avatar
Panther
Posts: 2807
Joined: Wed May 17, 2000 6:01 am
Location: Massachusetts

Post by Panther »

I understand and there are some good points, but...

with all the effin money that's been wasted giving bonuses to big wall street and big bank scam artists in the name of "too big to fail", I personally would have rather seen some of that used to buy off the poppy villages, help people here that are hooked on the drugs (evidently at least partially brought in by our own government), and helping out the people who really need it rather than the hacks who already have fat wallets. If they're going to steal more money from my paycheck, at least have it go for something that will help US.

<rant mode = off>
AAAhmed46
Posts: 3493
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:49 pm
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.

Post by AAAhmed46 »

Here is something you don't see every day.

‎"Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow are as bad as the right wing; they are all playing the same wing, nobody is addressing the institutional methods that are strangling us. I don’t care if it’s from the left or right, it all acts as diversion to keep us in a state of self-delusion." -- Chris Hedges


Chris Hedges is often confused with being leftwing because of his fierce opposition to Iraq and afganistan before it was popular to hate the wars. He hates all war as a war correspondent. For these reasons he tends to have support from the left more than the right.

But really, he contantly bashes both left and right. He is very hard on liberals in his last article, basically calling liberals 'useless'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eZ6PeoBPyI

CNN, FOX, MSNBC, all have the faults he talks about in the begiinning(shouting down, bullying, not allowing guests to flesh out opposing ideas)
User avatar
Glenn
Posts: 2186
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska

Post by Glenn »

Their main fault is that those 'news' channels stopped doing news, it's all commentary and aggressive interviewing now. Particularly in the evenings when I actually have some time to catch up on some news. Weather Channel is taking a similar path of distraction, can't find weather on it, it's all weather stories now, at least when I have the opportunity to watch it. I've pretty much given up on all of those channels. They are driving me to only use the web for news and weather, even though catching those on TV is always more relaxing or conducive to multi-tasking than is getting them from the web.

And I generally cannot stand the personalities and tactics of any of those commentators, whether CNN, FOX, or whatever. Nancy Grace grates on me just as much as, if not more than, Glenn Beck. I don't care for any of them.
Glenn
AAAhmed46
Posts: 3493
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:49 pm
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.

Post by AAAhmed46 »

Glenn wrote:Their main fault is that those 'news' channels stopped doing news, it's all commentary and aggressive interviewing now. Particularly in the evenings when I actually have some time to catch up on some news. Weather Channel is taking a similar path of distraction, can't find weather on it, it's all weather stories now, at least when I have the opportunity to watch it. I've pretty much given up on all of those channels. They are driving me to only use the web for news and weather, even though catching those on TV is always more relaxing or conducive to multi-tasking than is getting them from the web.

And I generally cannot stand the personalities and tactics of any of those commentators, whether CNN, FOX, or whatever. Nancy Grace grates on me just as much as, if not more than, Glenn Beck. I don't care for any of them.

News should be news, not entertainment.

The anniversery of the moonlanding was overshadowed by....lindsey Lohan :(
User avatar
Jason Rees
Site Admin
Posts: 1754
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:06 am
Location: USA

Post by Jason Rees »

Chris Hedges is often confused with being leftwing because of...
I don't know... in his last article he showed that he has swallowed 'global warming' hook, line and sinker. So I think it goes beyond a single issue like wars.
Life begins & ends cold, naked & covered in crap.
AAAhmed46
Posts: 3493
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:49 pm
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.

Post by AAAhmed46 »

Jason Rees wrote:
Chris Hedges is often confused with being leftwing because of...
I don't know... in his last article he showed that he has swallowed 'global warming' hook, line and sinker. So I think it goes beyond a single issue like wars.
Like any writer, i don't always agree with him.

The bad:

Although he hates utopian visions, and believes they have caused great problems, he still votes socialist. Huh?

For all his critique of the leftwing ideologues, he votes socialist. Even though he has written in length about communist dictotorships and oppressive leftwing governments, he votes socialist.

Does he naively think it wll magically change the nature of the establishment?

yeah, i really disliked that last article. He was far too smug in his rant against denying global warmiing. He failed to give credit to the critics, some very legit critiques at that. Actually i disagree with alot of what he says. And yeah, is IS far more sympathetic with the left thatn the right.

Although his critique of war is very well informed( he covered alot of war zones, lots of interviews and research) i think he fails to see that sometimes you HAVE to go to war, sometimes it isn't a choice. I think he let his negative experiences on war make him hate it so much that in his mind there is no excuse for war.

But if someone is trying to kill you, or wipe you off the face of the earth(and this happened lots in history has it not?) you will probably have to go to war. You don't particularly ENJOY it, but you don't exactly have many options.

Although im more pro-palistine than pro-isreal, im not as negative toward isreali opinion as some pro-palistinian folk are. If you feel threatened, or have a history of attempted genocide against your people, you will not exactly be always thinking peaceful solutions are possible. Can't blame a population to believe this.
His writing made me rethink GLORIFICATION of war, and i learned new things on war propoganda from him.

But alot of people don't go to war for fun, and it isn't ALWAYS about greed.

What i like about hedges:

His points against utopian visions really meshed with me.
His writing ont he nature of governments, power and domination. His writing on propoganda and the problems of an image based society, and where society is headed, he has some great ideas. (why does he think socialism is different? It isn't)

I do like his observations about leftist(and rightwing) media are dead on. They do nothing to inform, other than spout opinions, present psuedo facts, yell and scream and don't want any real discussion.

He critques both the neo-athiest movement and right wing fundamentalist christianity and islam, without outright generalizing christians, athiests, or muslims.
(He has a book on neo-athiesm, evangelical christianity, and on islam he goes into fundamentalism in kosovo, hamas, other places. I asked him why he didn't make a book on it, he figures we already have a million books on the subject as is. )

Whats interesting, he doesn't look at these ideologies themselves and blanket it black and white as evil as many on the left often do, but more so goes into economic and political circumstances that make people extremists(and he includes Sam harris and hitchens in this)
Post Reply

Return to “Bill Glasheen's Dojo Roundtable”