Gestapo, Euro-style

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Jason Rees
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Gestapo, Euro-style

Post by Jason Rees »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... trial.html

Time for Europe to pull the plank out of its own eye before criticizing us for due process issues concerning Gitmo.
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Post by cxt »

Jason

France also has some really odd rules.

If I recall correctly (and it's been awhile) they can, according to my buddy in France:

-Hold you in jail up to 1 full year without anyone being told where you are or what the charges might be.

-You can have lawyer present during questioning but they are not allowed speak or interfer and they are not allowed to tell even your family where you are.

-Wiretapping/dumping phone records/cell phone etc do not require a court order.

-You do not have a right to keep silent.

-Unlike the USA where you are presumed "innocent" the tendency is that you presumed "gulity" unless you can prove your innocent.

-Its a crime to insult the president and the government. Not all that common but people have been jailed and fined for doing so.

-You do not have the right to freedom of speech.

In terms of use of force to get information----whatever they say, the French have always pretty much done whatever they felt they had to do........and they really don't care what you or I or anybody else thinks or feels about it.

The French, again, despite their statements to the contrary, also have little problem with intervention in the internal polices of other nations, sending troops into other nations, acting on their own to protect their interests etc.

Indeed the USA seems to be the sole nation that seems to feel that looking after their own interests should be something to be ashamed of.

I sometimes wonder when people start to wax on and on and on.......about how we should be "more like" France if they really understand what they are wanting to be like.

Our most ardent critics are often the most hypocritical.......both at home and abroad. ;)
Forget #6, you are now serving nonsense.

HH
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Jason Rees
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Post by Jason Rees »

Very interesting.
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Van Canna
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Post by Van Canna »

What redeems France is it's good looking women :wink:

Image
Van
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Panther
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Post by Panther »

Van Canna wrote:What redeems France is it's good looking women :wink:

My wife is French... Oooo-LA-LA!
8) :D :mrgreen:
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Van Canna
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Post by Van Canna »

Then we envy you, Panther. :lol:
Van
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Post by Panther »

I learned almost all of my French from Patty LaBelle!

:rofl:

But now with a wife that is American with French heritage and who grew up in a very Catholic family going to French Mass... and a Mother-in-law who speaks French at every opportunity (especially to our 3 year-old)...

J'ai dû apprendre à parler un peu les Français de l'auto-défense! Généralement de comprendre pourquoi j'ai été appelée "tete du pioshe"!

:lol:
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Post by Panther »

:oops: I was talking with my wife about my post (yes, we share everything) and...

She reminded me how rude I always say it is for someone to speak a different language in the company of those who don't speak that language.

Sooooo....

What I wrote (in not-so-great, but adequate French I'm told) basically says:
I had to learn a little French for self-defense. Mainly so I'd know why I was being called "tete du pioshe".
("tete du pioshe" is a French slang phrase that is somewhat derogatory, but is being used in an affectionate way by my mother-in-law. It more or less translates to "Potato-head" and she calls me that because I can be.... ummmmm... stubborn/hardheaded/opinionated/etc. Just a little, I swear. :wink: )

Anyway, apologies for tossing that out there like that. My wife is a Saint. She likes my guns, cigars, motorcycles, classic cars, heavy machinery, and a host of other things that I've found seem to bother some other women. All that, like-minded politics and beautiful to boot! :lol:
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Bill Glasheen
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

Panther wrote:
She reminded me how rude I always say it is for someone to speak a different language in the company of those who don't speak that language.
I on the other hand was happy to see that my French isn't completely lost. I actually understood it all, after not having spoken French for close to 40 years. Go figure!

Merci!

- Bill
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Rumor has it...

Post by IJ »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_France
"France has a long history of governmental censorship, particularly in the 16th to 18th centuries, but today freedom of press is guaranteed by the French Constitution and instances of governmental censorship are relatively limited and isolated."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of ... try#France
The Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen, of constitutional value, states, in its article 11:

The free communication of thoughts and of opinions is one of the most precious rights of man: any citizen thus may speak, write, print freely, save [if it is necessary] to respond to the abuse of this liberty, in the cases determined by the law.

In addition, France adheres to the European Convention on Human Rights and accepts the jurisdiction of the European Court of Human Rights.

But see section on "restrictions."

"As part of “internal security” enactments passed in 2003, it an offense to insult the national flag or anthem, with a penalty of a maximum 9,000 euro fine or up to six months' imprisonment.[citation needed] Restrictions on "offending the dignity of the republic", on the other hand, include "insulting" anyone who serves the public (potentially magistrates, police, firefighters, teachers and even bus conductors).[citation needed] The legislation reflects the debate that raged after incidents such as the booing of the “La Marseillaise” at a France vs. Algeria football match in 2002."

In France, any person brought in police custody (garde à vue) must be informed of the maximal duration of the custody, and a number of rights, in a language that this person understands. Among these rights are: the possibility of warning a relative or employer of the custody, that of asking to be examined by a physician, that of discussing the case with an attorney. A suspect, however, only has a right to consult with an attorney at the very beginning of the period of detention and then again, in cases of prolonged detention, after the twenty-fourth hour of detention. In cases of terrorism and narcotrafficking, however, the individual may not consult with an attorney until the seventy-second hour of detention. Further, criminal suspects in garde à vue do not have to be informed of their right to remain silent.[36]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miranda_warning#France
"Witnesses against whom there exist indictments (or who are cited as suspects) cannot be heard under oath, and thus do not risk prosecution for perjury. Such witnesses must be assisted by an attorney, and must be informed of these rights when heard by the judiciary. Suspects which are brought before a Juge d'instruction must be informed of their right to remain silent, to make statements, or to answer questions. In all cases, an attorney can be designated by the head of the bar if necessary."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presumption_of_innocence
In France, article 9 of the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen, of constitutional value, says "Everyone is supposed innocent until having been declared guilty." and the preliminary article of the code of criminal procedure says "any suspected or prosecuted person is presumed to be innocent until their guilt has been established". The jurors' oath reiterates this assertion.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 03214.html
PARIS -- France's highest constitutional court Friday ordered that French police be stripped of their power to arrest ordinary suspects and interrogate them for 48 hours without bringing charges or reading them their rights.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uses_of_to ... mes#France
On the other hand, police abuse remains a reality in France today, while France has been condemned by the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) for the conditions of detention in prisons, including the use of torture on detainees. Although the law and the Constitution prohibits any kind of torture, such practices happen. In 2004, the Inspector General of the National Police received 469 registered complaints about illegitimate police violence during the first 11 months of the year, down from 500 during the same period in 2003. There were 59 confirmed cases of police violence, compared to 65 in the previous year. In April 2004, the ECHR condemned the government for "inhumane and degrading treatments" in the 1997 case of a teenager beaten while in police custody. The court ordered the government to pay Giovanni Rivas $20,500 (15,000 euros) in damages and $13,500 (10,000 euros) in court costs.[28] The head of the police station in Saint-Denis, near Paris, has been forced to resign after allegations of rape and other violence committed by the police force under his orders. Nine investigations concerning police abuse in this police station were carried out in 2005 by the IGS inspection of police.[29][30] These repeated abuses are said to be one of the causes of the 2005 civil unrest.[31] Conditions in detention centers for illegal aliens have also been widely criticized by human rights NGOs. In 2006 a young 20-year-old Serbian girl accused a policeman of attempting to rape her in such a centre in Bobigny, in the suburbs of Paris, the year before.[32]

here is a USA detail for comparison:
Criminal justice system - Abusive and torturous practices are regularly reported within prisons, and not uncommon in police custody.[citation needed] Police brutality in the United States has at times escalated to torture, as in the cases of Abner Louima who was sodomized with a broomstick by New York police.[81][82]

The Chicago Police Department's Area 2 unit under Commander Jon Burge repeatedly used electroshock, near-suffocation by plastic bags and excessive beating on suspects in the 1970s and 1980s. The City of Chicago's Office of Professional Standards (OPS) concluded that the physical abuse was systematic and, "The type of abuse described was not limited to the usual beating, but went into such esoteric areas as psychological techniques and planned torture."[83] The Supermax facility at the Maine State Prison has been the scene of video-taped forcible extractions that Lance Tapley in the Portland Phoenix wrote "look[ed] like torture."[84]
--Ian
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Jason Rees
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Post by Jason Rees »

Gotta love Chicago. The only people more crooked than the crooks are the politicians and the cops who prop them up.

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Post by IJ »

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1235166/

if you prefer a movie. but more about gangs than authorities. they only show up in the movie to grant day passes and allow in-jail drug running.
--Ian
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