tallahassee - continue with shotokan?

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tallahassee - continue with shotokan?

Postby chalkdust » Mon Sep 06, 2010 4:19 pm

should I continue with shotokan training? I like it.

a Pangainoon place recently opened up, it is interesting but their sanchin kata is a little different from the one i was shown back when I first took a uechi class.

Still looks like a really cool dojo and I am not sure how to compare this with the shotokan dojo.

Other options are a shaolin kung fu school that offers black tiger fist, snake, dragon, leopard and monkey as well as long fist and nan qon or nan kwon as well as wing chun and mantis (sounds like an awesome school)


then there is a moy yat place I used to go to, I really liked it but I am ready to really commit, I think I should stay with shotokan. But Im wondering.[/list]
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Postby Jason Rees » Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:04 am

No one can make that decision but you... but really, how much time have you put into Shotokan... and what do you gain from dropping it like a bad habit?

I've dropped classes before, but only because either 1: I couldn't afford it, or 2: work requirements demanded it (ie; moves from state to state, too many injuries, etc.).
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Postby mhosea » Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:23 pm

I think the instructor and your natural affinity for the fighting style are more important than anything that could be said in general. I used to train in Matsubayashi Shorin Ryu a long time ago, but I quit at 17 years old (or so--long time ago, hard to remember). When I came back to karate years later, over 40 years old, I considered taking up Matsubayashi Ryu again, but I found that 1) I had an excellent Uechi instructor teaching a few miles from my house (Matsubayashi instruction was much farther away), and Uechi Ryu seemed more adaptable to the limitations I had developed over the years from some medical issues. So I started over as a white belt and now, some years later, know I made the right choice for me. The right choice for you might be Shotokan, or maybe it's pangainoon or jujitsu. I think you sort of have to try them out. I took aikido for a very painful month (my limitations include many joint issues). I liked the instructors and enjoyed the ukemi training (and needed it!), but it wasn't for me.
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Postby MikeK » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:45 am

If you like Shotokan and want to stay with it then do so. When taught properly it's really a wonderful style, and as long as you're getting something from it I don't see a need to change.
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Deciding on a "Dojo"

Postby Thomas Ferguson » Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:39 am

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Postby mhosea » Sun Sep 12, 2010 11:08 pm

I could be wrong, but I think the reasons for using a name like "pangai-noon" instead of "Uechi" usually has more to do with politics than anything else. Possibly on occasion they think the "kung fu" will sell better than "karate". Anyway, I think this pangai-noon school is just an off-shoot, though unfortunately not the one of that name headed by Shinyu Gushi. There is some video of beginner classes which show enough of the instructor's technique to get a feeling for the differences. They are more than we are used to seeing between the several major organizations that formed after Kanei Uechi's death.
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Pangainoon

Postby Thomas Ferguson » Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:03 am

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Pangainoon

Postby Thomas Ferguson » Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:04 am

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Postby mhosea » Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:35 pm

Actually, I misspoke. I don't think Gushi's organization is called Pangai-noon, rather Ryokokaku. Perhaps his DVDs are entitled "Pangai-noon" instead of "Uechi" because, in his words:

He replied, "We don't call it Uechi Ryu anymore because it displeases one particular member of the Uechi family, but yes, I will show you what I do. I will perform Sanchin."


http://www.dragon-tsunami.org/Dtimes/Pages/articleg.htm

As for which organizations of which I have no first-hand knowledge are bullshido, I will leave that to the judgment of others.
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Panuechigainoon?

Postby Thomas Ferguson » Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:27 am

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Re: Deciding on a "Dojo"

Postby chalkdust » Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:11 pm

Thomas Ferguson wrote:There are a few "common sense" issues to consider in your choice, I think.

In considering your Shaolin Kung Fu school, I suggest you go on line and do some reading. This site (click on the crane) http://www.yongchunbaihechuen.com/ will give you some material to consider. You might also look here http://www.freewebs.com/fiveancestors/ Perhaps after viewing the material, the notion that one school claiming the name "Shaolin", and teaching nine (9) disciplines, is somewhat far fetched, will manifest to your understanding.

Check out some reputable "Wing Chun" sites, and "Praying Mantis" sites. The discovery that each of these disciplines is a life long pursuit, may reflect upon the credibility of your "Shaolin" Kung Fu school.

The probability that one school would instruct in all these "styles" is preeety slim. They may 'claim' to, but real study to the end of mastery in any one is "lifelong", and would potentially exclude other pursuits.

I have this comment to make about any "Pangainoon" school. There is no discipline in China called "Pangainoon"! There never was! The word used by Kanbun Uechi is a "description of method" and not the name of a style.

The closest any one has come to actually finding out the "original" style name, only comes close to describing a broad category given the generalization of 'Southern Mantis Fist Group'. This is a broad generalization, based upon observation.

I believe personally, and I may stand corrected at some future date, that Uechi Ryu is a style combining elements of differing Chinese disciplines. Now whether this ingenuity was authored by Kanbun Uechi's mentor, or by Kanbun Uechi could probably be debated.

The style was introduced to Okinawa by Kanbun Uechi. He never disclosed a formal name for it, only it's methodology, being "half hard soft". Eventually the curriculum was given the name Uechi Ryu, in honor to Kanbun who disclosed it, and perhaps had a hand in it's inception as well. Is this not fitting?

Within Uechi Ryu there have been factions as time progressed. Now this phenomena is probably an inevitable manifestation of human nature. However, to assume that a school should claim to be teaching "Original Pangainoon" is bogus! I'm sorry but this is true. There is no "Paingainoon" that did not descend from Kanbun Uechi.

Any "modifications" that these schools have made in their methodology, have factioned off the Uechi template, and there has been NO input from chinese "Pangainoon" sources. Basically, It's "all in their head" or a gimmick of nomenclature.

You can trace every single "Pangainoon" lineage back to Kanbun Uechi, and ABSOLUTELY no farther! Themz the facts!

Now possibly some of these aberrations may intend to portray the mysterious "Shu Siwa" as the lineage head, and in so doing denigrate the Uechi rightful place. The truth is, none of these schools have ever had any input from Shu Shiwa.

There are no maxims of Shu Shiwa. There are no "dojo kun" of Shu Shiwa. There are no "students" of Shu Shiwa giving instruction. Shu Shiwa is a historical personage, only by way of reference to Kanbun Uechi.

Kanbun Uechi, the real flesh and blood soul, taught this style. Some of his "hands on" pupils have borne credible witness to Kanbun Uechi, and countless second generation witnesses are walking among us.

So, try and see things clearly. Your potential "Pangainoon" dojo is a faction of Uechi Ryu, authored probably by some disgruntled adept. And, if they claim to you that they are teaching the "Original Pangainoon", it's an outright lie.

Shotokan is a bonofide and legitimate discipline. The nice thing about it, is that you can actually trace it's lineage to Funikoshi. His maxims, biography, and Kyohan are readily accessible, and they will encourage you in your training.

You were instructed in "Uechi class" somewhere along the line. If you like "Sanchin" you can always keep doing it! You will find that the Shotokan "Hangetsu" Kata contains some similar concepts. You really can't go too far wrong with Shotokan. If perchance you change disciplines at some future date, your experience in Shotokan will not be wasted! You will be knowledgeable, and fit, and adept at "Basics" to say the least.

On the other hand with the Kung Fu school, I think you'll be "ripped off", and with the "Pangainoon" you may be putting a lot of effort into an art, that is not truthfully what it claims to be! You'll be laboring under a delusion.

One final suggestion, please read George Mattson's article, on choosing a Karate School. http://uechi-ryu.com/j/uechi-community/ ... g-students


I think a lot of shotokan comes form black tiger forms of kung fu.


as well as dragon


and i noticed that about hangetsu, the tension is in instead of expanded, i think the shotokan front and back and horse stances are all expanded outward, if that makes sense, i dont fully grap the concepts, but I know breathing is still important.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXBun4Ngkkg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXcOnwC07QI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWnu-mCdd7I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cuRkVB- ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4KPEjzwDvo&

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ebJlhR6Tns

evidenced by these videos:
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Postby chalkdust » Sat Sep 18, 2010 3:19 am

i just realized i stink at karate anyway.

im 26 and turning 27 soon. i feel like a failure. how good can i possibly get?
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Shotokan

Postby Thomas Ferguson » Sat Sep 18, 2010 3:46 am

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Postby Jason Rees » Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:46 pm

chalkdust wrote:i just realized i stink at karate anyway.

im 26 and turning 27 soon. i feel like a failure. how good can i possibly get?


I feel your pain... but is it really about 'how good can I get?'

Are you going to win national competitions? Probably not. Fill your house with trophies? Probably not. Become a movie star? Probably not.

However, if you want to do it to be good at something, anything at all; if you want to increase your odds of surviving a sticky situation; meet other like-minded people; complement a warrior's lifestyle; do it just to do it; or any other unmeasurable contribution to your own life... obviously it's something you want to do.

Why wait until you're 80 years old, and wonder 'what if?'
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Postby chalkdust » Sun Sep 26, 2010 1:44 am

Jason Rees wrote:
chalkdust wrote:i just realized i stink at karate anyway.

im 26 and turning 27 soon. i feel like a failure. how good can i possibly get?


I feel your pain... but is it really about 'how good can I get?'

Are you going to win national competitions? Probably not. Fill your house with trophies? Probably not. Become a movie star? Probably not.

However, if you want to do it to be good at something, anything at all; if you want to increase your odds of surviving a sticky situation; meet other like-minded people; complement a warrior's lifestyle; do it just to do it; or any other unmeasurable contribution to your own life... obviously it's something you want to do.

Why wait until you're 80 years old, and wonder 'what if?'


what if i joined the millitary??
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