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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:50 pm 
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Bill, Reagan did inherit stagflation. That was a bummer. Agreed. This must be why you are so understanding of Obama's spending. Afterall, his predecessor gave him the biggest fiscal crisis since the Great Depression-- perhaps only something GW Bush could have come up with? Or was that not his fault because myriad other forces determine fiscal calamities? In that case, do we relieve Mr. Carter of some of the blame? Would we also want to expand the credit for defeating the USSR to beyond one man in 8 years?

I personally think Presidents catch a lot of heck and praise for things that just happened when they were on (and also do very important things). Following some youtube links yesterday I came upon a very interesting interview where Bill Clinton freaks out on Chris Matthews for implying 9/11 was his fault. He makes a decent case he did all he could. I try not to overcall responsibility for these things....

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:46 pm 
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IJ wrote:
Would we also want to expand the credit for defeating the USSR to beyond one man in 8 years?

I personally think Presidents catch a lot of heck and praise for things that just happened when they were on (and also do very important things).

Technically the collapse of the Soviet Union (and Communism in Eastern Europe as a whole for that matter, including the Berlin Wall coming down) occurred during Bush Sr.'s watch, so based on the prevailing logic here I suppose we would have to give him the credit.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:33 pm 
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Give a Republican president credit for something? What? Didn't you know, they've all been Hitler clones, idiots, or senile? :roll:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:05 am 
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According to the various pundits, taken aggregately, that summarizes ALL presidents!

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:33 am 
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No, no, no... The Democrat presidents have the added privilege of being the Antichrist! But they're NEVER stupid. Remember how 'smart' Gore and Kerry were supposed to be? And isn't Obama just the gee-darndest-most-brilliant-man-alive? All hail the Chosen One! Down with the Wingnuts!

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:57 am 
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Gore and Kerry didn't get elected, in my book that makes them smarter than those who did...although in reality they were probably just luckier.

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Last edited by Glenn on Wed Nov 24, 2010 6:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:59 am 
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Glenn

You've been out of Louisville far too long. And you also haven't been keeping up with either your Supreme Court rulings or Kentucky state law.

Rather than argue with you point by point, I'll instead post 3 separate and recent articles. No point in saying what these articles say. If you can't connect the dots (that I have from day after day after day of local news), well fine.

fox41 wrote:

More parents sue over JCPS assignment plan
Posted: Jul 19, 2010 11:17 AM EDT

Louisville, Ky. (WDRB-TV Fox 41) -- Monday afternoon, a judge allowed four more parents to join a lawsuit against JCPS.

It shouldn't be this hard to go to kindergarten, especially when you have schools in walking distance. It just shouldn't be this hard," says parent Belinda Abernethy. She wants her son to attend kindergarten at a school that's close to both her house and daycare, but the school district won't allow it. Instead he will attend Shelby Elementary.

"He may have to switch buses. He may be on the bus for an hour one-way," says Abernethy.

Ted Gordon initiated the original suit back in June. He claims the Jefferson County school desegregation plan violates state law. "Definitely, the state statue trumps a voluntary $60 million student assignment plan," said Gordon in a June interview with Fox 41 News.

The statute says children need to be enrolled in the school nearest to their home. A judge could issue an injunction against the assignment plan during a hearing on August 5, just two weeks before the start of the school year.

fox41 wrote:

School Board meeting to discuss busing issues
Posted: Aug 19, 2010 4:21 PM EDT

By: Rachel Collier - rcollier@fox41.com

LOUISVILLE, Ky. (WDRB Fox 41) -- Jefferson County Public School Board members plan to address the first day of school busing fiasco that has infuriated parents across the district.

Two principals have been suspended. But one board member says something else may be to blame, claiming problems were not just at those three schools where some kids did not get home until after 9 p.m., they were district-wide. "The superintendent, somebody needs to be punished for this. I don't agree with this at all, the kids getting home at 9, my daughter not getting 6:15-6:30 the first day, I totally disagree with it," said Nikki Clements, a mother.

Lincoln, Chancey, and King Elementary schools came under fire this week after children did not get bused home until after 9 Tuesday night.

Two of the principals have been indefinitely suspended over the mess. But Clements says her two daughters do not go to any of those three schools, and they continue to have busing issues.

The final straw...
wave 3 wrote:

Six of Kentucky's 10 low-achieving schools in Jefferson County
Posted: Nov 08, 2010 5:32 PM EST
Updated: Nov 09, 2010 7:27 AM EST

By Elizabeth Donatelli

LOUISVILLE, KY (WAVE) - The list is out and Jefferson County Public Schools are on it. Six of the 10 lowest achieving schools in the state are in Louisville and will now be formally assessed.

- Bill


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:05 am 
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IJ wrote:

Bill, Reagan did inherit stagflation.

How old are you, Ian?

Sorry, son, but I lived through the period. Reagan inherited Carter's stagflation. Carter was a one-term president. Reagan - a man who was considered too much of a right-wing whacko - won in a landslide because Carter botched things up that badly.

It's difficult to discuss things with you when you disagree with the obvious.

- Bill


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:08 am 
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It's difficult to have a discussion here tonight when (for whatever reason) the web is all whigged out. For whatever reason, I can't get to sources tonight.

Maybe later.

- Bill


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:43 am 
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Bill Glasheen wrote:
You've been out of Louisville far too long. And you also haven't been keeping up with either your Supreme Court rulings or Kentucky state law.

Rather than argue with you point by point, I'll instead post 3 separate and recent articles. No point in saying what these articles say. If you can't connect the dots (that I have from day after day after day of local news), well fine.

The info in all of these articles were touched upon in what I posted, nothing new in any of those nor anything that negates the conclusions drawn as to why Berman's contract was not renewed. They certainly do not cover the full breadth of the issue, which is what I was trying to do. Regarding the July 19 lawsuit article, you'll notice that the judge did not issue an injuction against the assignment plan on August 5.

I may have been out of KY for a while, but have plenty of friends and family still there, including in Louisville, that keep me up to date on the issues. I get it pretty much daily from my politically active parents.

I stand by my posts, are you still standing by your statement that Berman started busing there 4 years ago and was fired because of it?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:21 am 
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Glenn wrote:

I stand by my posts, are you still standing by your statement that Berman started busing there 4 years ago and was fired because of it?

You see where I came in, Glenn. That first news story is on the first day I started work here.

Most of America dealt with busing. But myriad Court rulings and state laws effectively reasserted the right to have access to neighborhood schools.

I walked in during the summer when almost every night contained a news story deploring Berman's brand new abortion of a busing plan. Berman was repeatedly interviewed, and his attitude towards the public was testy, condescending, and patronizing.

Side note... Henrico County USED to have a superintendant just like him. He copped an attitude like that on me once in a public meeting. Big mistake. :twisted: It started with my response to him. But I didn't stop there. Dr. Edwards "left" by the end of that year, and I got my wish of a new high school in my district.

Berman's arrogance and insensitivity to the citizens he was serving led to the lawsuits. Town meetings after the late night drop offs of grammar school kids led to a mother daring the superintendent (in front of TV cameras) to have her arrested because she didn't sign up like a good little girl to get her time in front of the mike.

While the courts didn't stop the plan from commencing, the conflict did seal his fate. All the public needed was an excuse to get rid of him. The test scores were all the ammunition needed.

You wonder why the photogenic attorney general Conway got trounced by Rand Paul? This is one classic example of social engineering gone wrong that drives members of the tea party bonkers.

Is there any part of what I posted that you don't understand? I fail to see what you find in error. I may have been imprecise in my language, but I was not wrong. And I'm not getting my information from hearsay.

It's easy for people with no skin in the game to dismiss these concerns. But when you have your kids in some of the best public schools in the country (number 1 son going to a nationally ranked high school, number 2 to a brand new middle school) and you walk into this ridiculous fiasco, how you feel about where you live and where your kids are going to go to school becomes more than an academic exercise, a history lesson, or something I'm supposed to accept because a liberal-minded bureaucrat thinks it's better for me. And the public is not served when the affluent leave the system and go private, creating a death spiral in the existing system. It's unintelligent, it's ineffective, and it's unjust to everyone.

Oh yea... and Berman owns this year's fiasco. That's all his baby. And as of last night, there are Louisville citizens dancing.

What saved the city from Berman? Objective measurement. Gotta love it! I'm all for outcomes-based education, and consequences for educators who can't produce. Granted there needs to be risk adjustment in the system. But no good came of spending all that ($60 million) social engineering money in a recessionary economy. Throw the bums out? Now you know why.

- Bill


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 5:56 am 
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Bill Glasheen wrote:
You see where I came in, Glenn. That first news story is on the first day I started work here.

Exactly, you missed out on a lot before that, and apparently had some erroneous info given your statement about Berman starting busing, which I corrected.

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I walked in during the summer when almost every night contained a news story deploring Berman's brand new abortion of a busing plan. Berman was repeatedly interviewed, and his attitude to the public was condescending and patronizing. His arrogance and insensitivity to the citizens he was serving led to the lawsuits. While they didn't stop the plan from commencing, they did seal his fate. All the public needed was an excuse to get rid of him. The test scores were all the ammunition needed.

Correct, his contract was not renewed because of his lack of leadership and inability to ease parents' concerns over the changes. The dots are still connected. That some parents complained and filed suit is normal, but the current round of complaints/lawsuit is nothing compared to what happened in 1975. Heck I'd be complaining too if my kids did not get home until 9:30pm, although that ended up being a few kids who were put on the wrong buses at their schools. The lawsuit was thrown out by a circuit judge on August 12 stating that "state law allows parents to register their children with the school closest to their home — but it doesn't guarantee their children a spot at that school", so it would be a non-issue for the Board since the courts sided with the district.

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Is there any part of what I posted that you don't understand? I fail to see what you find in error. I may have been imprecise in my language, but I was not wrong. And I'm not getting my information from hearsay.

"He came in 4 years ago from New England and inexplicably started a busing program a la 1970s style in an attempt to mix up the socioeconomic classes." Well that was just plain wrong, as I documented before, but I think your error is just because of your recent entry into the events, it happens.

Quote:
It's easy for people with no skin in the game to dismiss these concerns.

You mean the concerns of the lower income parents who don't want their kids stuck only in the poor schools? I agree, their concerns are definitely being dismissed in all this. Right now the focus is only on the complaints of the affluent, the majority of parents and students are being ignored.

Quote:
But when you have your kids in some of the best public schools in the country (number 1 son going to a nationally ranked high school, number 2 to a brand new middle school) and you walk into this ridiculous fiasco, how you feel about where you live and where your kids are going to go to school becomes more than an academic exercise, a history lesson, or something I'm supposed to accept because a liberal-minded bureaucrat thinks it's better for me. And the public is not served when the affluent leave the system and go private, creating a death spiral in the existing system. It's unintelligent, it's ineffective, and it's unjust to everyone.

So what's going on in the schools in your Virginia district that are not new or nationally ranked? What's being done to improve the education of kids at those schools? Instead of just ridiculing from the outsider's perspective, which you know is never well received by the natives, perhaps you could suggest viable alternatives? Come on Bill, one of the things I like about you is that you don't just complain, you look for solutions. Having "no skin in the game" seems to be making you too much of a bystander in this, that's not like you. Personally I don't like busing either, but simply ending it will not solve the issues that led to its implementation in the first place, so what are the alternatives? I'm provoking and prodding you for a reason afterall! :wink:

Quote:
Oh yea... and Berman owns this year's fiasco. That's all his baby. And as of last night, there are Louisville citizens dancing.

And yet no one spoke out against him at the public board hearing last night, nor was any of this public outrage taken out on the board members up for re-election this year. Must not have been too high on peoples' to-do lists. Note too that no policies have actually been changed in all this, and given that the school board sent a clear message that the current plan would not just be scrapped, whatever dancing you're seeing is probably premature. What is certain is that for everyone you see dancing there is at least one other who is concerned by what this turn of events means for their kids.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 3:25 pm 
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Bill, my point is that presidents have to deal with unique situations they inherit but did not create. And you refute this point by pointing out I am too young to understand stagflation. And if I don't understand that, then all is pointless because it's obvious? Huh?

Did or did not Obama inherit the biggest fiscal crisis since the Great Depression? Was or was not the bailout process started with GWB?

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008 ... 591&page=1

Along the way to that crisis, wasn't there a small hiccup in the deficit related to one necessary war and one arguable war (that Obama opposed?) both curiously unfunded aside from borrowings?

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/mar/16 ... p-bilmes16

Well, that must be irrelevant. But if my tender age negates the great recession of the last two years, then you must obviously plan to cease mentioning Jefferson, right?

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