Uechi-Ryu.com

Discussion Area
It is currently Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:13 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Powerbalance baloney
PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 17202
Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
As PT Barnum once said, "There's a sucker born every minute."

Alright you martial artists with both feet on the ground and your heads in the sunshine... Find the con.

Power Balance Demo

Oh and note that they've disabled comments. ;)

- BIll


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:49 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:06 am
Posts: 1750
Location: USA
Dear god.. the magnetic band thing is never going to DIE!!!

_________________
Life begins & ends cold, naked & covered in crap.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 17202
Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
How would a scientist critique these demonstrations? What's a proper way to run such a demo so that the claim would be credible (or debunked)?

- Bill


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 16, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 671
Would that be a double blind test where both the subjects and the demonstrator have no clue as to what is being measured?

You have any experience with that sort of test? :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 17202
Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
You learn well, grasshopper!

Wikipedia wrote:

A randomized controlled trial (RCT) is a type of scientific experiment - a form of clinical trial - most commonly used in testing the safety (or more specifically, information about adverse drug reactions and adverse effects of other treatments) and efficacy or effectiveness of healthcare services (such as medicine or nursing) or health technologies (such as pharmaceuticals, medical devices or surgery). The key distinguishing feature of the usual RCT is that study subjects, after assessment of eligibility and recruitment, but before the intervention to be studied begins, are randomly allocated to receive one or other of the alternative treatments under study.

***

An RCT may be Blinded, (also called "masked") by "procedures that prevent study participants, caregivers, or outcome assessors from knowing which intervention was received."[36]

***

RCTs without blinding are referred to as "unblinded"[39], "open"[40], or (if the intervention is a medication) "open-label"[41]. In 2008 a study concluded that the results of unblinded RCTs tended to be biased toward beneficial effects only if the RCTs' outcomes were subjective as opposed to objective[36]; for example, in an RCT of treatments for multiple sclerosis, unblinded neurologists (but not blinded neurologists) felt that the treatments were beneficial[42]. In pragmatic RCTs, although the participants and providers are often unblinded, it is "still desirable and often possible to blind the assessor or obtain an objective source of data for evaluation of outcomes."[27]

This would be a very easy experiment to run at camp. Heck... we could film it and post it on YouTube.

Imagine the money we could make for the makers of the Power Balance wrist device. Do ya think we should ask them beforehand if we can get a piece of the action if we make them famous? Assuming of course there is a positive finding. I mean... don't you believe??? :roll:

- Bill


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 7:35 am
Posts: 100
Location: Nagahama Okinawa
I loved the power balance demo video! Three old vagabond con tricks, very neatly and professionally presented.

I spoke of this in class yesterday (one of the students wears a PB bracelet) and decided to perform the same demo on a student. I used a cheap ink pen we laughingly called the Plastic Power Pen.

To the amusement of all, we went through the same three tricks but with further explanation and analysis after each. Emmanuelle is a tall slender woman and it was easy to pull her off balance, but by subtly changing the leverage, she was a standing stone even when just on one foot. She couldn't figure what the differences were until I openly showed how a small change in the angle of my pull, or where I apply pressure, or the fact that she had used the first try (without Power Pen) to stretch muscles, and she had already stretched and would naturally pick up some more flex/distance on the next try (and succeeding tries).

I have a 1980's video of a UechiRyu 9th Dan living near Tokyo (he is the jiu jitsu expert in the 1965 Wakayama video) who does such tricks with his students (leverage and angles, very obvious to the viewer), then bemoans to the camera that "those old people on Okinawa have forgotten the real meaning of Sanchin".

To be honest, I really don't think this sort of thing requires a controlled test, except for fun (and if we see a large number of students and loved ones wearing and swearing by these things) - but it would be really fun to get one of the PB folks who do the heavy YT-video selling to come in and submit to such a test...!

The danger is, of course, that someone might quietly believe such a plastic band on their wrist helps some medical situation that needs to be addressed by a physician rather than a charlatan...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:39 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 17202
Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
It's always a pleasure having your input, Seizan. My best to all.
Seizan wrote:

To be honest, I really don't think this sort of thing requires a controlled test, except for fun

The fun is having either a maker of or believer in the product participate in the test. Blind him and blind the subject, randomize to either the PB or a sham, and watch what happens.

But that would be way too much fun. ;)

An objective way to do it is to have the person hold a dumbbell of just enough weight on the end of their arm. Dumbbells don't cheat; gravity doesn't discriminate. You can blind the subject and your test will be free of "cheating" by the person administering the force.
Seizan wrote:

The danger is, of course, that someone might quietly believe such a plastic band on their wrist helps some medical situation that needs to be addressed by a physician rather than a charlatan...

Thank you, sir!

- Bill


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Powerbalance baloney
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:02 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2001 6:01 am
Posts: 2146
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Bill Glasheen wrote:
Oh and note that they've disabled comments.

If you go to the youtube homepage of the person who posted that clip
http://www.youtube.com/user/ozmoviedatabase
you can post comments (scroll down, the channel comments section is on the right), and some already have.

_________________
Glenn


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2000 6:01 am
Posts: 1348
Location: Somerville, ma.
I was at fair this past fall (The Topsfield fair) and there was a kid demoing either this or something very much like it, except that instead of magnetic waves theirs "worked" by balancing out the body's positive and negative ions. You see, normally your body only has one or the other (I forget which the claim was) and by wearing this little device that contained the opposite polarity you balance that out and improve various aspects such as strength, balance, etc.

I find amusement in trying out those demos and trying to figure out whether the presenter is a charlatan or just another sucker. In this case, the kid that was demoing it really hadn't been coached very well, and seemed sincerely puzzled when I asked what ions were supposedly in the wristband. My bet was sucker. Anyhow, It would be fun, if you anyone runs across a live demo of the magnet one, to ask which particular electromagnetic frequencies are the magical ones.

_________________
- Justin Powell


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 17202
Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Valkenar wrote:

I find amusement in trying out those demos and trying to figure out whether the presenter is a charlatan or just another sucker.

I find myself going through the same mental thought process, Justin.

A sucker can be educated; a charlatan will never change his stripes. So we can help the former, and should expose the latter.

- Bill


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:30 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:28 am
Posts: 26
Location: Massachusetts
If the secret power comes from balancing ions, we could just scuff around on carpet with fuzzy "PowerSocks" on; then, touch any metal surface and feel your own Cosmic <<<SURGE>>>. I think I'm on to something....anyone want to market PowerSocks?!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:58 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 17202
Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
I think I'd rather have my own Tesla coil. :twisted:

Image

- Bill


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:13 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:06 am
Posts: 1750
Location: USA
Be careful with that! :lol:

_________________
Life begins & ends cold, naked & covered in crap.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group