Self-defense in the video era

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Re: Self-defense in the video era

Postby Jason Rees » Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:03 am

Valkenar wrote:I guess I can agree that Anonymous might see some benefits from this, but can you cite anything to back up the stronger claim that movement is really about Anonymous. That seems like borderline conspiracy theoryism, and it's pretty far out of sync from everything I've read about it.


When you find an application that singles out a Twitter feed and prints it out going months back, let me know. Just going back to September 15th using Twitter.com took me two hours, and that was reading one feed and copying relevant tweets.

IOW, what I've been watching on Twitter and hacker news sites doesn't match what the media's reporting. Big surprise.

Here's some Twitter feeds to check into yourself, if you're feeling froggy:

AnonyOps
AnonyMedic
USDayofRage

At least I'm not claiming George Soros is behind it.
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Re: Self-defense in the video era

Postby Valkenar » Sun Oct 23, 2011 2:14 pm

Jason Rees wrote:When you find an application that singles out a Twitter feed and prints it out going months back, let me know. Just going back to September 15th using Twitter.com took me two hours, and that was reading one feed and copying relevant tweets.


Well, where did you copy the tweets to? Can you post those?

I did check some of those feeds, and I did look around September 15th, but I didn't really do a thorough enough search I guess, because I didn't find anything that told me that Anonymous has all that much to do with these protests, really. Sure, they're interested and reporting on it, or at least parts of Anonymous (which is not really an organized group) are, but maybe I'm missing something.

Try this site for searching old tweets: http://topsy.com/advanced-search

Even if a few Anonymous twitter feeds do claim some sort of major influence, control or whatnot, I would hesitate to leap to the conclusion that it's absolutely true. Just because someone says something on Twitter doesn't make it so.

But I'm open to having the case being made, but in my searching and reading I haven't found anything that even indicates Anonymous is in control. They probably managed to turn out a few Guy Fawkes masks, but where are you getting that the whole protest is about their Agenda, except to the extent to which Anonymous just happens to share an agenda with some other dissatisfied people? It's not like Anonymous really has that original of a perspective.
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Re: Self-defense in the video era

Postby MikeK » Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:02 pm

It's official, this thread is now...
Image
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Re: Self-defense in the video era

Postby Bill Glasheen » Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:39 pm

Just think, Mike, we've got 13 more months of this. :roll: No doubt we see the passions that drive confrontation. At least here it's reasonably civil.

This reminds me a bit of the rise of the Ayatollah in Iran followed by the hostage crisis. I remember reflecting on the role of the Soviet Union during it all. During a speaking engagement at UVa (a representative of Iran's new government debating a member of our foreign policy team), I remember asking about it. While the U.S. representative understood my concerns, he said "at worst, they weren't very helpful."

These extremists groups are always there, doing their best to fan flames of opportunity. But I'm thinking that this movement is bigger than said groups. And as quickly as it came together, they'll likely disappear when the weather gets miserable.

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Re: Self-defense in the video era

Postby Bill Glasheen » Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:57 pm

So do you want a graphic example? This isn't the first time I've posted a topic, and then a groundbreaking world event subsequently transpired.

A quick trip to YouTube will reveal any number of videos of the capture of Gaddaffi and the treatment of him shortly before he was announced killed.

Arrest of Gaddafi

No doubt at that moment he probably wished that American or British troops had found him first.

This was a very bad man, and there had to be consequences for his decades of brutality. But while we shouldn't be surprised at the ending, it's almost difficult to conceive that it could evoke sympathy for the man, and revulsion of the people who captured him. Note that the dislikes outnumber the likes.

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Re: Self-defense in the video era

Postby Jason Rees » Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:32 pm

Valkenar wrote:I guess I can agree that Anonymous might see some benefits from this, but can you cite anything to back up the stronger claim that movement is really about Anonymous. That seems like borderline conspiracy theoryism, and it's pretty far out of sync from everything I've read about it.


Valkenar wrote:But I'm open to having the case being made, but in my searching and reading I haven't found anything that even indicates Anonymous is in control.


Looking back over your responses, I missed a chance to clarify myself, so I'll do it here.

I'm not saying the Occupy movement is about Anonymous. It's moved beyond that now.
I'm not saying Anonymous is in control of the Occupy movement. I am saying Anonymous continues to have influence within Occupy.
I am saying Occupy was started by Anonymous. I am saying Anonymous will use Occupy, along with all the other little [expletive-that-rhymes-with-pit)storms to further their agenda.

Anonymous is not some uber-powerful shadow organization out to rule the world. I'm not trying to be alarmist. My response was originally to your claims of the central theme of Occupy (silly in the face of its intentionally decentralized nature), and what it was comprised of.

Mike. :P

Bill, my apologies for hijacking.
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Re: Self-defense in the video era

Postby MikeK » Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:04 am

So really, when it comes to self defense in the video age we need to be slightly more slow to anger, be extra aware of possible threats and cameras and sneaky whenever possible.
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Re: Self-defense in the video era

Postby Bill Glasheen » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:21 pm

MikeK wrote:So really, when it comes to self defense in the video age we need to be slightly more slow to anger, be extra aware of possible threats and cameras and sneaky whenever possible.

I got to thinking about this, Mike. Let's suppose the topic was "Self-defense in the concealed carry era." Would everything you stated apply? And so does a camera (and cell phone in general) possibly fall under the general category of a weapon-like tool?

Much has been said here (and elsewhere) about how the awareness of a potential firearm in a situation can cause tempers to be moderated and behavior to be more constrained. Its deterrence value has been used in fact as justification for the right to carry.

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Re: Self-defense in the video era

Postby Valkenar » Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:18 pm

MikeK wrote:So really, when it comes to self defense in the video age we need to be slightly more slow to anger


It seems to me this particular dial should be turned up to 11 all the time, camera or no. Anger can be (but isn't always) a useful tool if we do have to fight, but any time anger leads to a fight, we've already screwed up. In other words, any time the presence of a camera convinces you to back down where otherwise you might have allowed yourself to escalate emotionally, it's probably done you a favor.

How do you feel like being sneaky plays into it?
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Re: Self-defense in the video era

Postby Jason Rees » Sat Nov 19, 2011 3:31 am

Valkenar wrote:I guess I can agree that Anonymous might see some benefits from this, but can you cite anything to back up the stronger claim that movement is really about Anonymous. That seems like borderline conspiracy theoryism, and it's pretty far out of sync from everything I've read about it.


*Ahem.*

What was that about a conspiracy theory?
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Re: Self-defense in the video era

Postby Bill Glasheen » Sat Nov 19, 2011 3:04 pm

The Washington Post wrote:Dave Marcus, director of security research for McAfee Labs, said that the computers that control critical systems in the United States are vulnerable to attacks that come through the Internet, and few operators of these systems know how to detect or defeat these threats. “So many are ill-prepared for cyber-attacks,” Marcus said.

The winners in this scenario?

  • Anti-virus software companies McAfee, Norton, Kaspersky, Panda et al
    ...
  • Apple

The losers?

  • Control systems which operate off of Windows OS
    ...
  • Companies whose systems are hacked into, revealing private information of their customers

A few years back I gave up on getting PC-based computers for my boys. Both now have Mac Pros. For inquisitive kids, it's the path of least resistance to idiot-proof machines.

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Re: Self-defense in the video era

Postby Jason Rees » Sat Nov 19, 2011 4:11 pm

We have annual information security training. I swear I can answer this stuff in my sleep. It changes a little each year, but it's nothing I haven't read about repeatedly throughout the year on my own.
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Re: Self-defense in the video era

Postby MikeK » Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:16 am

Came across this today...
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/igeneration/u ... ature-roto

If the author is accurate a few things jump out at me...:

To Generation Y it is more important to video something than to take part. Kitty Genovese syndrome with a camera?
To Generation Y raw video is all the facts that they need. To hell with context (Rodney King being drunk and resisting arrest doesn't play into why he got a beating in the first place).
To Generation Y the use of a tool at the lower end of the force continuum is the same as being beaten with clubs and having police dogs set on you. This is worrisome as if LE loses it's lower end tools then they'll have to hold back a response until things get really bad.

It is not 911 or 999 we call in an emergency. We do not think to engage with the situation. But what we do, as the Generation Y, is pull out our phones and start recording; documenting every second of the event for history’s benefit.

Instead of being reliant on information given to the public through media channels, we are now able to instigate our own broadcasts. Immediately connected to a global audience, two YouTube videos alone are prime examples of how witness reports to scenarios like this are no longer chained to censorship or secrecy.

This cultural shift allows people to see and feel themselves how it was in a situation like this. More than the printed word or carefully-trained television reporter, people have more freedom to make up their own minds and frame opinion around their own personal experiences.

In this case, and in so many more to come, the police and government — for all the money, tax revenue and intelligence that Western governments have at their disposal — seemingly cannot get their heads around a simple enough concept that wherever one is, someone is watching and recording.
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