More Kanchin and Sanseiryu

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More Kanchin and Sanseiryu

Postby Victor Smith » Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:29 am

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Re: More Kanchin and Sanseiryu

Postby Bill Glasheen » Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:02 pm

Mr. Popovic has been quite the busy man. We are grateful for his services and his postings on YouTube.

These are interesting to me from the standpoint of noting individual idiosyncrasies which are vestiges of various habits that come and go in the practice of Uechi Ryu. If you watch enough kata from enough people over time, you can almost guess the teacher. For instance... note the "posting" by Okuhama Shinmatsu even in his most complex circular techniques (1:09 and 1:12). As I understand it, this is something Uechi Kanei created to help students do their waukes on a plane in front of them. Soon the template becomes the technique. It is what it is. If he can make sense of it, he should keep doing it.

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Re: More Kanchin and Sanseiryu

Postby Victor Smith » Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:21 am

Bill,

Several more for you to view.

Okinawa Karate-Do Association, Koza Dojo, Yonamine Masunori (Kyoshi 7 Dan), Shohei-ryu/Uechi-ryu Kata: Sanseiryu, 23rd November 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1b0IaqsGkU

Okinawa Karate-Do Association, Chatan Dojo, Asao Nakasone (4Dan), Shohei-ryu/Uechi-ryu Kata: Kanshiwa (21st November 2011) & Kata: Kanshu (21st November 2011) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmqiu7yQnp8
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Re: More from the YouTube toy store

Postby Victor Smith » Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:15 am

YouTube the toy store that keeps on giving.

Okinawa Karate-Do Association, Chatan Dojo, Shoko Tamanaka (3Dan) & Asao Nakasone (4Dan), Shohei-ryu/Uechi-ryu Kata: Seichin, Seisan & Sanseiryu (25th November 2011) -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTsXab9i2YI

Ueichi ryu karate kote kitai http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbGxTybZ_2E
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Re: More Kanchin and Sanseiryu

Postby Bill Glasheen » Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:27 am

Thanks, Victor!

Lots there, that's for sure.

You can tell which ones are doing some of the traditional training behind the scenes. The movement shows it. The prime example is Asao Nakasone. Those hands have definitely done some jar work. If you've done it yourself, then you know it when you see it.

With all the Shohei kata, there's one thing I've noted that consistently is different from what I do. I do not do my "hawk chases sparrow" (sukui age uke along with harai sukui uke) the same way most of them do it. Funny... I went to look back at a reference point. See 018:-020 of this very old video.

SANSEIRYU (front view)- UECHI Kanei

Nope... don't do it quite like that either! Oy! :lol: Please don't turn in your grave, Master Uechi. ;) But seriously, the way I do it is a little closer to that.

What I see a lot of people doing is starting it with both forearms practically parallel to the floor. It gets you a great wind-up for the circular motion I suppose. But I've been able to get many more applications out of it by having a more "vanilla" set-up for it in kata. I do have drills for the motion where I vary this movement 7 ways to Sunday (and drive my students nuts...). But when I do the kata... by starting from the finish of the double thrust position of Sanchin kata, I'm starting with a simple, recycled posture. IMO that just works better for the brain. Less is more. Getting many applications out of fewer root positions IMO makes it more likely your body will be able spontaneously to create a customized application at a moment of stress. Anyhow, that's my theory.

It's at least interesting to ponder the variations.

- Bill

P.S. In my latter years, I've begun to model my shomen geri mechanics after Uechi Kanei's, as is demonstrated from 0:13-015. Again... classic whole-body mechanics. Back in the day when I copied the robot style of others, I used to think it was sloppy. Now I marvel at the core involvement.
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Re: More Kanchin and Sanseiryu

Postby Victor Smith » Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:57 am

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Re: More Kanchin and Sanseiryu

Postby CANDANeh » Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:31 pm

I like Petrovick`s technique (Seiryu) at 1:31, 1:34,1:37 and 1:40
The sinking and compression often not seen in these movements. Maybe a bit more exaggerated than I am going to try, but I understand what his is trying to convey...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPFiUZzapBA
Thoughts?
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Re: More Kanchin and Sanseiryu

Postby Bill Glasheen » Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:33 am

CANDANeh wrote:Thoughts?

I understand what he's trying to convey as well. Nice touch, isn't it?

I have several applications of this move. One I just picked up and apply in a variation of dan kumite #4 against a partner doing a flying side kick. Another I picked up from a Goju master in a Goju kata bunkai. (It's a take-down)

I convey what he's doing a bit differently. Rather than raise and lower my center of gravity in a slow fashion, I instead keep my center relatively still and then do a somewhat complex kime when the foot comes down. There's a lot going on the way I do it... Naturally I did that motion in my Sanseiryu kata at my test over the summer. I'm not sure if people watching me do it catch all the nuances. I work and work and work on that motion. I spend lots of time teaching it by stripping it down to its fundamental elements and then putting it back together in a manner a bit beyond what that fellow is doing.

On the sinking and compression thing... Employing that as a takedown, there's a point in time where suddenly your posture is taking on the load of your opponent. So rather than sink and fall down with the bad guy, I'm instead doing a core muscle focus that prevents me from falling over when the sudden load hits the spine and center. At that point I am crunching, tucking, focusing the glutes, driving my sokusen into the floor, and focusing my boshikens. It is not a slow sink, but rather a smooth motion that suddenly finds a kime. It makes me exhale (and I'm sure that makes Van smile... ;)).

Make sense?

I'm also a big, big believer that the motion starts at the end of the previous motion, if that makes sense. If I showed you some applications, you'd realize that the 90-degree and 180-degree turns aren't because you want to show the judges the motion from all sides. The turn is part of the movement.

Make sense?

Good stuff!

- Bill
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Re: More Kanchin and Sanseiryu

Postby CANDANeh » Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:42 pm

I'm also a big, big believer that the motion starts at the end of the previous motion, if that makes sense. If I showed you some applications, you'd realize that the 90-degree and 180-degree turns aren't because you want to show the judges the motion from all sides. The turn is part of the movement.


The analogy I use is waves. Waves crashing into rocks are evident and impressive to anyone standing on the shore. However, the trough is basically invisible or considered insignificant to most observers (except dreamers like me :lol: )

A kata is composed of transitions (troughs)... a well performed kata should in my opinion "wow" those who know of the significance of fluid and effective transitions not just the "crest".

"In physics, a wave is a disturbance (an oscillation) that travels through space and time, accompanied by the transfer of energy"

Interesting read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave
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Re: More Kanchin and Sanseiryu

Postby Bill Glasheen » Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:58 pm

A good sign that you're on to something in kata is when form and function both confirm an idea. I like the way you think. And as an engineer who used Fourier analysis in his dissertation (which quantifies the amplitudes and frequencies of "waves"), I certainly appreciate your perspective.

The turns before that "technique" are IMO a part of "the technique" the way any other technique may require repositioning or reorientation in martial arts. In the beginning we spend thousands of hours practicing techniques in a fixed position. Ultimately though the reorientation is what makes it all work. Weaving that into the fixed-position technique is where most students fail in their quest for a fighting art that is their own. It's sort of like learning to sing and play guitar at the same time. At first they feel decidedly separate. But with practice they become one entity.

Partner work makes it all real.

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