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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:19 pm 
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TSDguy wrote:
Like a fist to the face. I am still healing going on three months from that. Don't use a fist to the face!


Was it a punch you gave or took?

It is instinctual to want to hit someone in the face with a punch...but the skin, especially in between the knuckles cannot be conditioned not to get impaled or cut by the opponent's teeth...and this is potentially deadly. One student of ours just about made it to the hospital before it would have been too late to extirpate the infection that was about to kill him.

You can also throw a Tyson punch and be out of the fight. :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:23 pm 
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Gave. I cut the skin on my finger. It healed really quickly because it was just a 'scratch', but there is so little flesh there I think I damage an artery or something. It still hurts.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:02 am 
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Was it a street fight?

Did you see a Doc?

When did it happen?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:22 am 
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Van Canna wrote:

When did it happen?

TSDguy wrote:

I am still healing going on three months from that.


As Van said... it's usually a good idea to see a physician when you get a cut like that. Particularly if it's from hitting someone in the mouth, you could have injected some nasty bacteria into your skin. Chances are by now you're fine, but... get it checked anyhow.

- Bill


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:13 am 
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Right on Bill...

Here is something worth reading....

http://tkdtutor.com/TOPICS/Techniques/H ... ch-02.html

Quote:
Another consideration is cutting the knuckles on the perpetrator's teeth. Punches are usually directed to the head area, but the mouth should be avoided. However, the teeth may be struck inadvertently.

Humans have the very infectious mouths, including AIDS. Once you break skin you are introducing all those germs to your body. When you open your hand from a fist, the tendons pull back. If the knuckles are cut when a fist strikes teeth, the act of opening the hand pulls bacteria in.

Serious infection can set in within 24-48 hours. When a mouth strike is made with the heel of the palm. any impact with the mouth distributes the contact area making it difficult to break skin if the teeth are struck.

With a punch, one knuckle may hit the teeth, breaking skin easily, because the skin on the Dorsal side (top of the hand) is easily cut because it is very thin. The opposite is true of the skin on the palm. Germs do not fester as easily in the fleshy palm of the hand as they do in the knuckles. With a properly executed palm heel strike, the chances of injuring the hand are slim.


Unfortunately, we keep reinforcing the 'operant conditioning' of hitting with a closed fist in our drills for scoring points in sparring matches.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:33 am 
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CANDANeh wrote:
I had the same injury (along with a crushed foot unfortunately) but it took an SUV to do it...need to step up my conditioning :lol:
The breaks these fighters suffered kinda freaks me out 8O . When using our body parts as weapons it may be good advice to ensure we "use the right tool for the job" and evaluate it`s potential to be damaged during use.


Leo,

This is very good advice.

For example, even if a practitioner has very well conditioned legs/shins/instep etc._

what they should realize is that in the chaos of a real fight and while aiming at the opponent's legs to 'cut him down' _he may, first of all, come up against big heavy people [250 +] firmly planted on the planet…and not conveniently providing the 'right targets' to hit with our shins/feet the 'safe way' for us. So someone who weighs 300 pounds has legs that seem glued to the floor giving a very resistive target to your strikes.

What is the safe way? Simply the one that will not destroy your ankle joint, for example, when you miss and impact with the wrong part of your leg/foot that imparts ballistic stress to your joint and ligaments.

Again to bring up the soccer players' most common injuries…

Soccer players are the most formidable kickers in the world and because of their constant 'leg smashes' they are extremely well conditioned in the giving and taking kicks in the legs.

But many soccer players' ankles are broken or twisted badly when a power kick meets another power kick, with the ball in between, impact being made with the top or side of the foot, which affects the ankle joint and tendons.

I keep telling my students that joints/ligaments are very difficult to 'condition' and to be very careful and mindful of a serious joint injury in a street fight…or the fight ends right then and there.


Here is something from George Chaplin:
Quote:
It goes without saying that joints of any kind can never be strengthened by conditioning. The last major complication to be concerned about in body conditioning is in the fascia of the tendon sheaths, tendons, and ligaments.

These do not have a direct blood supply and like periosteum they collect their nutriments from the thin fluid that passes between the cells. It is called the interstitial fluid. Therefore, without a blood supply they will not bruise.

Fascia, tendons, and ligaments don't really bruise anyway because they are made of inelastic, tightly bonded molecules of collagen. These are so inelastic that they tear instead of bruising. Small tears are not very serious or complicated and will usually clear up with some rest.

Sudden impact onto a highly stressed tendon or ligament can often cause complete separation that will require surgical repair. Major tears, whether complete or not, will weaken a ligament or tendon and the resultant scarring will leave it susceptible to more tears.

This weakening can become chronic and cause the cessation of training. Tendons run in a protective sheath. Bruise this and you run the risk of having the smooth slippery surface of the sheath roughening, the tendon will then grate every time it moves causing acute pain.


This can be seen in the knuckles of people over doing the Makiwara and punching hard objects like bricks as in Tameshiwara training. This condition, tenosynovitis, is not normally serious although it may be become chronic and require the cessation of karate training.


> George Chaplin, C/O Dr. N. G. Jablonski, Dept. of Anthropology, California Academy of Sciences, Golden Gate Park, San Francisco. CA 94118 - 4599 U.S.A email: njablonsk.cal.org.

Biographical Details George Chaplin is an Uechi Ryu Karate Do Yon Dan, and has taught and practiced karate in Hong Kong and Perth Western Australia.

He was registered at Futenma Dojo where he trained with Grandmaster Kanei Uechi, and has spent a total of one year studying on Okinawa. He spent five years as Chief Instructor of the Hong Kong Dojo with Mr. Robert Campbell Renshi who was Senior Instructor and head of the branch. He has recently moved to San Francisco. . <

This is the link to his entire article… http://uechi-ryu.com/chaplin.htm

Bill, I know that you are familiar with this article by Mr. Chaplin…can you tell us if you agree with all he writes?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:56 am 
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Van Canna wrote:
Bill, I know that you are familiar with this article by Mr. Chaplin…can you tell us if you agree with all he writes?

The basic ideas are correct. Fascia, tendons, and ligaments have very poor circulation and do not heal easily. The fleshy surface of the palm heel has a thick protective layer of dead skin and well-vascularized tissue beneath it. It's kind of like thinking about walking with the tops of your feet vs. the bottoms of your feet. One side is designed to support and distribute force, and the other not so much.

Regardless, cuts from another person's mouth are worse than dog bites. They absolutely should receive medical attention.

- Bill


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