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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 5:52 am 
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Sparring with Bill over current events is fun enough, but hardly why I keep coming back to this forum. Unfortunately it seems to be the majority of what happens on here anymore. Is there really nothing happening in the martial arts world worth discussing? I did come across this video that I think could generate some interesting discussion. Lots going on in these 27 seconds from a self-defense standpoint.
Man disarms shotgun robber in New Orleans
Thoughts anyone?

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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 11:59 pm 
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First... the robber was an idiot. Too close.

Second... disarms from this distance are quite easy. We've practiced them a lot in our class with handguns that shoot pellets. You can redirect the pistol faster than the person can pull the trigger. The second move can take longer.

And finally... the concept translates well here. Obviously you saw the wauke. I'm thinking this person was a trained martial artist. His subsequent move after the first gross-motor parry was perfect. The entire sequence is basically a shomen ikkyo.

- Bill

P.S. - For the record... I would do this in a New York second. That guy would have pissed me off. My footwork would have been a little different, but the end result would have been the same.

And I'd have kept the pump shotgun. Beeatch!!! 8)


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 3:26 am 
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This vid goes along well with material posted recently on Van's board, and some blog posts I've seen in the past month. This guy was waving that shotgun, the 'victim was able to position, and BAM! Over in a heartbeat. The 'victim' took his window with alacrity. Well done. Five feet of distance and some discipline with that barrel, and it could have gone very, very differently.

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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 4:06 pm 
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I agree that the would-be victim disarmed well, but what interests me the most are actually the events before and after that. Where was the defender's awareness? He is walking alone at night and focused on something in his hands (hopefully he was not visibly counting money in that setting!) rather than paying attention to anything going on around him. The gunman gets to within ~10 feet of him before he apparently hears something and looks around. On the other hand, would earlier awareness have helped him or caused the gunman to stop out of reach? I am thinking in would not have changed anything once the gunman decided to rob him, the gunman thought he had found an easy victim and continues to advance even after he is detected. Projecting awareness on the other hand may have made the gunman ignore the would-be victim in the first place, the gunman bolts as soon as the defender makes his move indicating the former was not very committed to robbing this particular guy.

Which brings us to the would-be victim chasing the gunman after thwarting him. He has stopped the robbery and disarmed the gunman, basically he is safe at that point so why increase his risk by giving chase? We talk about how victims bolting can trigger the chase reflex in the bad guys, but what about the bad guys bolting triggering it in the would-be victim?

As for the gunman getting too close to his victim, let's face it with most people he can get away with that. A fast-food place I worked at as a teen had a robbery one night after close (this was before I started working there). A man with a shotgun waited by the backdoor for someone to open it, and when a worker did so to take out some garbage the gunman thrust the shotgun in the worker's face and backed him up against a wall. The worker later told me that looking into a shotgun barrel like that was very intimidating and he could not take his eyes off of it to notice anything else. In both that case and in the video, the gunman was counting on the fear factor that can be instilled from having a shotgun thrust in one's face...one time it worked, the other it did not. Needless to say, policies about using the backdoor changed after that robbery.

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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 12:13 am 
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I doubt that "a look" would stop someone with a pump shotgun from approaching you. The only look that would change his mind would be the barrel of a Glock.

As for "letting" someone get too close, well... Awareness is important. I do try to stay aware on the streets, and I will do a 360 while walking if someone is following me. And I will look STRAIGHT at them.

However when confronted with a bad situation (a determined attacker), I've found making the attacker underestimate you to be a useful ploy. I call it "playing the village idiot." It's served me well in several situations. Nobody taught it to me, by the way; it just happened. Having been in high school drama has helped me with the role playing. What I look for while appearing completely unaware is for the other guy to make a mistake.

This attacker was stupid. His ploy works for most people, but not for someone trained in this scenario. The Tueller drill is a great example of how having a gun doesn't necessarily make you invulnerable.

- Bill


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 2:50 am 
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Bill Glasheen wrote:
I doubt that "a look" would stop someone with a pump shotgun from approaching you.

If he is watching for what he considers easy targets, then not looking like an easy target could help. Most robbers want the best chance for success without complications. However if he is exceedingly reckless or desperate, or high, or has other issues, then it likely will not matter. Of course this guy walking alone likely helped single him out as a target as well, but I cannot help but think that his distracted behavior right before the attack played a role as well.

I would say awareness is my most developed skill. I am constantly surveilling my surroundings, and I believe it has helped me avoid a few potentially bad situations (including a few car accidents). I am also generally amazed at what the rest of the family does not notice when we are out.

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I call it "playing the village idiot." It's served me well in several situations. Nobody taught it to me, by the way; it just happened.

OK Bill, that is just making it waaaayyy too easy for us. :D

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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 7:02 pm 
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Glenn wrote:

Bill wrote:
I call it "playing the village idiot." It's served me well in several situations. Nobody taught it to me, by the way; it just happened.

OK Bill, that is just making it waaaayyy too easy for us. :D

Precisely!!!

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