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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 6:35 pm 
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Hokie_PhD wrote:
One it didn't look like Ortiz asked for time out. And if it's not granted then he should stay in the box. Players step out of the box all the time like asking for it is automatic. So it not being granted and the resulting strike are the right call unless something has changed.

This has been discussed; it was commented on by the home team announcers at the game. You are correct, but for the wrong reason. You can be forgiven, as you don't understand the entire context.

Ortiz wasn't given a strike to swing at all day. In baseball it's sometimes called the intentional unintentional walk - if that makes sense. You hope that a player that's on fire will swing at a pitch that's not a strike, knowing that said pitch cannot be hit and you don't dare put one in the zone. This was happening to David all day long. Some of the pitches were in fact thrown at him. The pitcher knew what was going on, the catcher knew what was going on, the ump knew what was going on, David knew what was going on, and the entire stadium knew what was going on. David was putting up with the faux IBB, until the starting pitcher commenced with the head hunting. That's not funny. So after one throw at the head and a clear intent not to throw him a strike, David stepped back even before the pitcher released the ball. He wasn't trying to call time out; he was engaging in an act of self-preservation.

Technically David committed a violation. If you step out of the batter's box, it's an automatic strike. The home team radio announcers mentioned this, and they were correct. What isn't clear is if the umpire was calling ball 4 a strike because he disagreed with the location (barely a strike high in the zone) or he was calling a strike because David stepped out of the box. The latter was *never* established after the fact when the appeal was made, so we cannot assume it.

If the umpire had intended the latter and he wanted to keep control of the game, he should have quietly told David he stepped out of the box. But he didn't. So the situation escalated.

More...

- Bill


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:23 pm 
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Hokie_PhD wrote:
This video really bothers me

GOOD!!! It should. It appears David was successful, or at least partially so.

Hokie_PhD wrote:
Ortiz is a role model to so many. He's a big name professional baseball player making millions. As such we should hold him responsible for his actions. Ejecting him was right.

I agree.

Throwing Martin Luther King's protesters in jail was right. It's called civil disobedience. They "want" to be thrown in jail to make a point. They wanted attention to their cause, and they got it in prime time news.

Hokie_PhD wrote:
Baseball players know getting thrown at is part of the game.

This is where your argument falls apart.

First... You want to hold David Ortiz to a different standard than the pitcher. No, no, no!!!!!! This is like saying a guy cannot hit a woman, but it's OK for a woman to attack a man. Sorry... Homie don't play that. Neither does a court of law.

The umpire lost control of the game once the pitcher engaging in the faux-IBB started throwing at David. You don't allow the first violation and punish the second.

But your comment is even more blind than this simple logical fallacy.

I'll start by asking you to read the following book. It's an excellent read both on the game of baseball and life in general.

..... The Unwritten Rules of Baseball

There is a proper way to throw at a batter. Understand that the act is a violation of the official rules of baseball, and likely will get the pitcher ejected. But "it" happens. And if you're going to do "it", then there's a correct way to do it.

The correct way is to throw at the thigh or the glutes. Any Uechika worth his salt trains for a hard kick to the thigh. Any batter who winces and rubs the spot - believe it or not - has violated one of the unwritten rules of baseball. If you're not absolutely injured, you never show that it hurt. You just take your base. Either your plunking is an answer to some prior violation by someone - or - the favor will be returned later on by your pitcher. And payback's a beach you know... :twisted:

The absolute wrong way to go about this is to throw at someone's head. Here is what can happen.

Image

One pitch ended this superstar's career in The Impossible Dream season of 1967. Every Red Sox fan and player understands the history of Tony Conigliaro.

.......... Return From The Dark

As terrifying as Conigliaro's career-ending injury was, the guy has to consider himself lucky compared to poor Ray Chapman. On August 16, 1920, the Cleveland Indians' shortstop was beaned in the temple by Yankees pitcher Carl Mays, and he died the next day. *

No baseball player or human being is obligated to put himself or herself at risk of permanent injury or death.

More...

- Bill

* 9 of the Most Terrifying Injuries in Baseball History


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:55 pm 
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Here's one final bit of work worth considering.

Wikipedia wrote:
Amygdala hijack is a term coined by Daniel Goleman in his 1996 book Emotional Intelligence: Why It Can Matter More Than IQ.[1] Drawing on the work of Joseph E. LeDoux, Goleman uses the term to describe emotional responses from people which are immediate and overwhelming, and out of measure with the actual stimulus because it has triggered a much more significant emotional threat.[2]


Go ahead, my friend. Have someone throw a 90-something mph pitch at your head. I have played baseball, and have had it done to me. I have the rare distinction of having never been successfully plunked, and yet having the highest walk rate on my high school baseball team. Maybe it was a sign that I was meant to be in martial arts. But let me tell you... it does things to you that a human being cannot control. That's pre-programmed in your DNA. It's a reason you are here on this earth, and others were removed from the gene pool.

Several times in my life - inside and outside the dojo - I've had someone swing at my head. In several instances - inside and outside the dojo - I've had my fist "act without my permission." Only after the fact did I realize why someone was sitting on the floor in front of me. That's called operant conditioning - something else worth discussing. In any case, this is a reason why I choose not to go where alcohol and mating rituals are happening in the same place. It's wise if at all possible not to put yourself in such a situation.

David Ortiz is a big man, and he's a Dominican. He is by Nature and by Nurture someone you don't want to get upset. He's one of the nicest and funniest guy in the world...

..... David Ortiz Hugs New York

... and also someone you don't want to hijack.

.... David Ortiz smashes phone

He also has much pride - something that no Boston fan would dream of taking away from him.

..... David Ortiz - Boston "This is Our ******* City"

Caveat emptor. Throw at this man's head, and live with the consequences.

The pitcher in this game won a battle by making David look foolish. Goodie for him. But per the unwritten rules of baseball, there are consequences.

- Bill


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:29 pm 
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Glasheen Sensei I said growing at a batter is part of the game. Yes it's wrong but its done. And yes throwing to the areas that you started is the "right way" to do it. I don't agree with headhunting but it happens and is more common than it should be. (It shouldn't be tolerated at all)

Ortiz is a slugger and a star. Of course the other team is going to avoid pitching to him. As a veteran he knows the rules, he knows the acceptable limits and he knows the lines of going to far. As do the umps and the other team. Ortiz's job is to keep his cool that day he failed. The other team got in his head and he lost it.

Fine get irate but again there are limits and he crossed way over the line. The bottom line is his loss of control could have really hurt someone.

I didn't look up what MLB did and not being a fan I don't really care. I guess what I hope is a message was sent to everyone in the MLB that acting like that wont be tolerated.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:54 pm 
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Hokie_PhD wrote:
Ortiz's job is to keep his cool that day he failed. The other team got in his head and he lost it.

You are probably using this model of the amygdala hijack.

..... What Was I Thinking? Handling the Hijack

Goleman and Le Doux correctly articulate the anatomy and physiology of the hijack. However what they never did was say the following.

Quote:
Your job is to keep your cool

Another view of the situation is that of DeBecker, who views emotion not as a flaw but as a gift.

De Becker wrote:
People use the word fear loosely, but to put it in its proper relation to panic, worry, and anxiety, … … … , real fear is not paralyzing – it is energizing.

In a civilized society, we are taught to ignore that gift. But is that always wise?

Brave New Kitty wrote:
If you are taught that you aren’t worthy of protection, then you will fly into a panic whenever you feel yourself in such a situation. The panic comes not from “overreacting,” but from the inner conflict between the natural survival instinct and the conditioning that we are somehow not worthy of protection/survival.

And so this is the dilemma facing the average person. Predators know they can use our manners against us. These predators - if they so desire - can derail us to our detriment. What they hope is to paralyze us. What they don't want is to energize us.

Hokie_PhD wrote:
Fine get irate but again there are limits and he crossed way over the line.

You aren't alone in that belief.

Hokie_PhD wrote:
The bottom line is his loss of control could have really hurt someone.

But did he "lose control"??? Watch the body language between the diminutive Dustin Pedroia and the massive David Ortiz seconds after the brutal assault on an innocent telephone. Lost in that is the tiny Victorino (behind Lovullo) within inches of his back, tending to his teammate. Note how Lovullo practically has his hands in his pockets.

Image

Look at the body language between Farrell and Ortiz.

Image

Is this really demonstrating a loss of control? Do you think you know more about David's state of mind than the unspoken team captain (diminutive Dustin Pedroia) and the general manager (Farrell)? Ponder the actions in context.

Hokie_PhD wrote:
I didn't look up what MLB did and not being a fan I don't really care. I guess what I hope is a message was sent to everyone in the MLB that acting like that wont be tolerated.

David was ejected from the game for throwing equipment (his elbow pad) before he hit the phone. There was no punishment given to David after the fact by MLB. David may have had to pay the Orioles for the phone; it would only be proper.

MLB did however give a 5-day suspension and an unspecified fine to Boston pitcher Dempster for plunking the much-hated Alex Rodriguez.

..... Opinion: Should Dempster have hit A-Rod?

Why are their actions inconsistent with your wishes? Food for thought.

- Bill


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:23 pm 
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So why was David Ortiz able to murder an innocent telephone in the dugout and get away only with being thrown out of that game? Meanwhile seemingly less obvious infractions (e.g. a pitcher plunking a batter) can get you thrown out of the game *and* get suspension plus "unspecified fines." Hmm...

Well the first thing to consider is - while flying phone pieces are shrapnel - it's a lot healthier to murder a phone than it is to take your aggression out on a human. Holding it inside isn't easier. I could go on and on about that. Suffice it to say that the peer-reviewed literature supports "getting it out of your system" as being consistent with longevity.

There's more.

Quote:
Emotional Bank Account - By Mirjam Busch & Rudolf Jarosewitsch

When you are kind, honest, caring and friendly to another person, you make deposits on an Emotional Bank Account. However, if you are unkind, disrespectful, uncaring and mean, you draw from this account.

Stephen Covey (The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People) uses the metaphor of Emotional Bank Account to describe "the amount of trust that’s been built up in a relationship" (p. 188). Trust is needed for a relationship to thrive. Without trust, we may manage to accommodate and endure another person, however, it cannot be mutually satisfying in the long run.

It is easy to take another person, a spouse or friend, a relative or anyone we deal with, for granted. Yet, the level of good will that exists in the relationship determines the well-being and ease we feel. It provides the foundation we can build on.

We don’t need money to make a deposit on the Emotional Bank Account of any relationship, and won’t feel richer if we withdraw from it. Nevertheless, it is so easy to waste and erode the level of trust by being thoughtless and critical.

Imagine, a kind word, a compliment, a smile, all add up; while putting down or blaming someone takes away.

When we have a comfortable wealth on our emotional bank account, the relationship is stable so that we can afford to have disagreements or arguments, without immediately seeing red and/or throwing the baby out with the bath-water. Conflicts can be resolved. But when our account is low or even overdrawn, the relationship is in danger. We can’t afford any more withdrawals and need to be mindful to make deposits again, so it can be salvaged and survive.

Here's another deposit in the emotional bank account. From last night...

Image

..... David Ortiz reaches 2,000 hits as Red Sox rout Tigers

- Bill


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