Wing Chun that doesn't look bad.

[MikeK]

I like this guy's approach and it has a lot of similarities to how my friend taught karate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eY0gg0jITJY

[jorvik]

yeah it's like a joke I heard " How many Wing chun guys does it take to change a light bulb?"
answer " it doesn't matter how many, they'll all say the other guys are doing it wrong"

[Bill Glasheen]

yeah it's like a joke I heard " How many Wing chun guys does it take to change a light bulb?"
answer " it doesn't matter how many, they'll all say the other guys are doing it wrong"

Listening to these guys bicker makes my brain hurt. It's bad enough having this guy proselytize about his true way. I don't have a problem when he stops talking and actually does stuff. It gets worse reading the posts to his video from other Wing Chun practitioners telling him he's not doing real Wing Chun.

What-ever...

We have these folks in Uechi Ryu as well, Ray. They're the ones not coming to myriad camps available to them, telling their students that Their WayTM is the one and only way.

Meanwhile...

I'm blessed to be in a region of the country where IUKF people speak with the Kenukai people speak with the Shohei Ryu people speak with the SOKE people. We're too busy training and stealing each others' ideas to get into these mental masturbation arguments.

Thank god George gives us a platform here as well where we all can talk about the world the way we'd like it to be... and others can come on telling us how so full of sheet we are.

- Bill

P.S. Love the fashion statements!

[jorvik]

The funny thing though Bill, is that there are different levels of understanding in the WC community, some people have vast amounts of knowledge and others don't, but think they do. The last guy that I posted about really knew his stuff, but I didn't really enjoy training with his group.unfortunately the group I trained with before I really liked , but they weren't anywhere near as good....so, Problem ...and it's like this with a lot of Chinese styles, doesn't really matter what Style that you train in , it's more the lineage .I was told this by a Chinese friend and it's true. Usually folks are vague about stuff if they are from a poor lineage..like in my first school the Si lum tao form the first part ( Three salutations to the Buddha), folks told me it was to develop sensitivity..it isn't, they said that you need to do it slowly ..you don't .it's really showing the relative strength of your stance, and how to develop stopping power in your punches.technical, but not magical..no chi bombs just good body mechanics.it would work against a boxer.
you may remember years back on the forums we talked about whether Uechi should have adopted the standing fist as opposed to the turning fist .I would say neither, it should be the standing fist but done more like an uppercut.then you can really power up from sanchin

[Bill Glasheen]

The funny thing though Bill, is that there are different levels of understanding in the WC community

That's pretty much true of all styles. Good students can learn anywhere - up to a point. Good teachers can teach almost anyone - up to a point.

you may remember years back on the forums we talked about whether Uechi should have adopted the standing fist as opposed to the turning fist .I would say neither, it should be the standing fist but done more like an uppercut.then you can really power up from sanchin

There is no fist in Kanbun's kata. They have a pronating shoken thrust. The vanilla Okinawan seiken was added in via one junior kata (Kanshiwa) - just so the Uechi people could play with the other Okinawan stylists. That said... the Sanchin nukite is a metaphor. You can do what you want with it.

You need to understand that going Wing Chun with your thrusts is a conscious decision with no return. The radial deviation of the fist that happens on impact would essentially pull the rug out from under a shoken thrust. Think about it... So no, you can't transfer the mechanics of Sanchin to a Wing Chun thrust without going down a path that's separate from being able to do the most salient hand technique of Kanbun's style. That isn't going to happen. Furthermore, the kata show no (zero) punches to the head. That's just smart self-defense. The only techniques to the head are open-palm thrust, hammerfist strikes, backfists, ridge hands, and possibly forearms. That is completely in line with modern reality-based self-defense.

Wing Chun however does offer much to a Uechi practitioner's mindset, and I regularly steal from their fighting science. I am all about fighting while in contact, using the elbow as a redirecting technique, flowing from one technique to the next, body shifting, gates, etc. That is all wonderful stuff.

As for an uppercut, well the mechanics exist in the Uechi Seisan. The template is the supinated nukite. Essentially any nukite in Kanbun's style is a metaphor for whatever you want to do with your hand. This is especially true in Sanchin. The 4 supinated nukites in Seisan can be done with a looping rather than a linear motion, and done with fists closed. And then - voila - you have your uppercut. And that works. It's perfectly consistent with Seisan body mechanics. In fact... it's more gross motor than the linear supinated nukite thrust, making it a more probable choice when under extreme neurohormonal stimulation (a.k.a. piss-your-pants fear).

- Bill

[Bill Glasheen]

I like this guy's approach and it has a lot of similarities to how my friend taught karate.

I forgot...

Thanks for your post, Mike. I like your external perspectives.

Bill

[fivedragons]

A little over a year ago, I adopted a couple young ferrets who have since become adult ferrets. It is amazing to watch them play with each other - They are very acrobatic and there is much baring of fangs and barking/hissing noises. Sometimes they grab ahold of each other where their skin is thickest and hold each other down. There is a different dynamic when "Louie" grabs his favorite toy, which is a stuffed fish on a string, attached to a fishing pole. He lowers his center of gravity, his eyes become little slits, and he uses every muscle in his little body in a kind of spasmodic movement to jerk the thing out of my hands. My little buddies are very sweet to me and my lady, and will let themselves be tickled and suffer any kind of indignity with out doing anything more than play-bites or licks to the nose. However, I just watched a video on Youtube of a ferret being fed a rat. Not pretty or funny, no acrobatics there, the poor rat was dead within a couple seconds.

Ferrets know karate.

[Bill Glasheen]

Ferrets know karate.

You might want to read Grossman's book On Killing. He talks about animals in the animal kingdom having no problem killing their dinner, but having a psychological block against applying that aggression to each other. Your description of your ferrets pretty much brings this out. And it also informs us on why it's so difficult during *and* after the fact for one human to kill another - with some exceptions.

- Bill

[Bill Glasheen]

My reaction to the video is the following.

• This guy is coordinated, fast, and strong. And he's very good at shutting down the threat ASAP. I'm sure a fellow like Van Canna loves it. Good stuff!
  ...
• The guy is all over the map about his opinions. Towards the end he says something that he should actually put into practice. Basically do your own thing and stop worrying about following others. He says it... and then can't help himself in the backbiting. As I mentioned above, it makes my brain hurt listening to it all. I really don't fuking care. I just want to see your stuff.
  ....
• This fellow should take some lessons from Thomas Jones - one of the most durable players EVER in the NFL. Thomas Jones holds the record for most consecutive games starting without interruption due to injury. He has many secrets to his success - including by the way being a graduate of my alma mater. One of the secrets he learned goes contrary to what this guy says. He decided early on that it made no sense to bang his body straight on into other flying bodies over and over and over again. He learned the art of getting off the line of force of his flying opponent. That art can be applied in martial arts as well. You want to deliver force to the other, and it isn't always possible to risk taking a hit to go straight in. Sometimes you can get away with it, and it's beautiful when you do. Uechi Seisan has lots of such up-the-middle attacks. But sometimes - yes - you need to apply that footwork to get around the force of a much larger opponent.
  ...
• This guy disparages others who aren't policemen and so don't do or know what he knows (if I am not mistaken). Meanwhile... Go talk to a LEO or prison guard like Rory Miller or Roy Bedard. In spite of what you *want* to do, you can't just go in there and take out a bad guy. Your goal is to stop and handcuff the threat. So yea... a lot of that martial arts (of doom) goes out the bloody window, unless of course you want to lose your job and perhaps your freedom.

Anyhow... my opinions - worth what you paid for it.

- Bill

[fivedragons]

Bill: "He talks about animals in the animal kingdom having no problem killing their dinner, but having a psychological block against applying that aggression to each other."

Don't have to read the book. I have a problem with killing, period. The buddhist without the lineage.... Go figure, scared of people with weapons and aggression, so I learned how to use my body as a weapon. I know that some don't play by the rules and I learned how to see them as vermin. There is nothing but awareness - of others and oneself.

[jorvik]

Quote
" • This guy is coordinated, fast, and strong. And he's very good at shutting down the threat ASAP. I'm sure a fellow like Van Canna loves it. Good stuff!"

yeah you have to give him that and he looks pretty hench as well, i wouldn't like to mess with him......I think Van would like this guy more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb0CIBr7XWk
...
Quote
"This guy disparages others who aren't policemen and so don't do or know what he knows (if I am not mistaken). "

Well police work is a lot different to what people think, and police really only talk to other police. I worked with a lot of police and so got to know them quite well. Violent crime is only a very small part of " Crime generally" .
I've recently been reading a book called " The Power of Habit" by charles Duhigg......and an interesting fact he brings up is that up to 47% of what we do is habit..so, if you think about it if you are born in a rough neighbourhood you quickly learn habits to defend yourself, also a police officer develops habits etc.now IMHO you can't transferr these habits just by giving a course or reading a book.
It can open up your martial arts practice a lot though if you develop the right habits

[Van Canna]

I do like the second guy better, he has the right 'mind' and look for a street fight.

And Ray is correct about 'habits'....

It is so in TMA as well _ 'operant conditioning' something that will bite you in the ass when you least expect after ingraining moves and concepts over time.

The 'bite your ass' condition is apparent when you face one of my students who is a Petronelli trained middle weight boxer.

The lines of force and directions of his punches, and now, his kicks...are blinding fast and powerful in 'snapping' _ for most of us _ 'unaccustomed'_ directions _ that the moment you get within range he demolishes your 'guard' or 'fence' in the blink of an eye with combinations so painfully fast that he renders your arms useless, while knocking you out going from body to chin.

All those upper body moves are great...but I work with my students to eliminate the 'upper' threats with invisible techniques [while momentarily huddling in the Dracula's cape] i.e, the slashing low kicks delivered to an opponent's legs with a super conditioned shin, as well as 'push kicks' to dislocate the 'knees'...think of them as torpedos.

We train something like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i3Jd5fQrVI

And you also see the importance of getting off line and work tenshin principles in our Uechi kata, a Bill points out.

And this week we'll have a new 'student' a big powerhouse of a guy ...trained in the old Muay Thai style.

Surely we will have lots to learn from him.

Meanwhile I use the 'iron arm' and tap my shins and arms 1000 times per day.

Do the same and you will discover how destructive your 'torpedos' can be.

Try to develop legs like these...

[jorvik]

Totally agree Van, my last Wing chun teacher was a Thai Boxing champion.that was really cool because he would teach how to shut down a Thai boxer, and for someone a bit older i.e Me, who can't really do the Thai stuff it was a real advantage kbnowing this stuff.
I love Wing chun, but I hated the politics ...for me martial arts is about getting an advantage..I like some of this guys stuff and more the approach to fighting.
To me this looks like Sanchin , correct me if I'm wrong, and it is the strating point for lots of good stuff..an entry if you will


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUr6gAr_EFw

[MikeK]

yeah it's like a joke I heard " How many Wing chun guys does it take to change a light bulb?"
answer " it doesn't matter how many, they'll all say the other guys are doing it wrong"

Yup, here's a vid where he calls the local guys on it, but really the second short lesson is pretty good and something few teach. I've heard it once referred to as a secret te technique and almost died from laughing.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=relmfu&v=_T17Sb7tJQ4

The guy from Denmark is very karate like (in the good way) and has a face that I've been on the other side of, fortunately it was in training.

One thing I like are martial artists that really look for the holes in their game without tossing what they do out the window.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=relmfu&v=_T17Sb7tJQ4

[fivedragons]

I don't think anything compares to soccer as far as leg conditioning. And there is much to be learned on the field.

A defender's perspective: Watching the forward blow his way through your team with skill and finesse, leaving everyone in his wake, you feel your body tense and relax, lowering your center of gravity and tracking his movement and the angles of the little round ball. "come to me, I am waiting".

Then you begin to intercept, knowing that you stand between him and the goalie, who is right now trying to come to terms with an unfortunate eventuality. You don't match him in his specialized skill, but you know how to do what you need to. The interceptor.

You have misjudged! You feel grass, pebbles and earth tear at your skin as you slide, watching him close on the goal. There is the feeling of pain and exhaustion, and the sound of your lungs laboring as you claw the grass and pump your legs. Tunnel vision and the unintelligible sound of the voices of your team-mates, the coaches and the crowd as you vector in on the spot that you know he will take the shot.

Then there is collision and everyone forms up for the corner kick.