Uechi-Ryu.com

Discussion Area
It is currently Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:34 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 42 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:59 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 30019
Quote:
What's missing is George's demand that you should breathe when you need to take a breath.


Absolutely Bill,

A person needs to breathe when the body is demanding it, regardless of any method. You are right about the breathing religion, and the people who turn all shades of color under the minimal of a sanchin test have had terribly inept teachers, who should have corrected this breathing flaw in a student early on.

This happens especially when a teacher gets behind the student, punching him and kicking him, while the student is unable to anticipate the blow and tense up or tightly exhale to absorb the blow.

The student doesn't want to get caught taking a blow while inhaling so he keeps holding his breath pressurized without a proper release. We are lucky that so far none of the elder persons I have seen go blue did not collapse.

Quote:
The "when" for the exhales is a matter of allowing it to happen with movement and forcing it to happen when your body wants/needs a breath.


Right on. And I find that people who have played competitive sports do this naturally, as the body demands it, whereas people who have never done sports have a terrible time on the dojo floor with breathing dynamics.
The biggest problem we see is a student straining with a pressurized abdomen, performing a strike without exhaling, but then emitting a short inaudible tsst and not inhaling as he keeps doing the next move.

Strictly the teacher's fault.

_________________
Van


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:57 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 7:05 am
Posts: 1227
Stryke:

"Its not just the concepts it's the explorations , and like any training methods breathing should change adapt and mature , but it's the explorations that expand our understanding ."

What more needs to be said about breathing? Racquetball, soccer, shooting, rowing, sprinting, jogging, climbing, lifting, speed bag, heavy bag, meditating, hiking, wrestling, stretching.

Slow and relaxed, slow and tense, steady and powerful, fast and flowing.

Sports, manual labor, relaxation, survival.

Absorbing force, projecting force.

It's all different for everyone just like no one has the exact same stance or mind or body. But it's all there, no secrets.

Just like anything else, there are some things that can be improved on, and also there are many people who really should stop with the master of breathing b.s.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:33 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 30019
Good post Stryke and all so true.

You know that what motivated me to start all those threads on breathing was because some teachers and some students went through some fits of despair in seeing or hearing one of my students 'exhale' with a strike.
Quote:
Aw my God he don't breathe Uechi
they would bleat.

This tells it all
Quote:
our core needs to tighten quickly and force an exhale. When our core tightens, it is more rigid and it becomes a strong component in our stance.


In Uechi we do tighten the core as we strike, but you will see that exhaling with the strike with a tightened core is not recommended, supposedly because you will lose some of your chi, as Dana Sheets was admonished in Okinawa.

What is not understood by many is the fact that when forcing an exhale, the body will automatically allow an inhale to replenish...so that a person does not turn blue as we sometimes see.

When not forcefully exhaling under contraction for a strike or receiving a blow... but making that almost inaudible tssst sound, expelling a miniscule amount of air, the body will not replenish with an inhale automatically and so we see the red and blue effect on some students' faces.

This of course does not apply to everyone.

_________________
Van


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 30019
http://www.calmclinic.com/anxiety/sympt ... -breathing

Good reading.

_________________
Van


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 17068
Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Van Canna wrote:
You know that what motivated me to start all those threads on breathing was because some teachers and some students went through some fits of despair in seeing or hearing one of my students 'exhale' with a strike.
Quote:
Aw my God he don't breathe Uechi
they would bleat.

Back in the day, we hung on our Masters' every word. Back in the day, it was less sweet science and more religion. That's OK and even necessary in the beginning, but over the long run it's unhealthy.

We all are growing up. And if you have raised kids, you understand the process. First there must be teenage butthead disease (an expression I invented), a condition whereby the adolescent rejects most of what the teacher/parent said. It is part of leaving the nest syndrome (another Bill expression). Then the student comes full circle and begins to appreciate most - but not all - of what the teacher and teacher's teacher had to say.

"When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much he had learned in seven years." - attributed to Mark Twain

That head-banging amongst us needed to happen. It's no surprise that certain "old timers" who had the intellectual temerity to cross-train began to evolve in their thinking. And when the religion freaks began to panic, it took open warfare to make some people just STFU and do their karate.

Van Canna wrote:
In Uechi we do tighten the core as we strike, but you will see that exhaling with the strike with a tightened core is not recommended, supposedly because you will lose some of your chi, as Dana Sheets was admonished in Okinawa.

Van doesn't fight fair. He knows that when he throw that chi smokebomb in my room, I get emotionally hijacked. :lol:

But seriously... Sometimes when people open their mouths, it's best just to give them all the rope they want. The words speak for themselves. I'll refrain from quoting Lincoln here, as it's unnecessarily unkind. ;-)

As for the core tension reference, well *this* is what it's all about. The only problem with the chisters is the truth ends up hiding in plain sight because they don't understand the driving principles. They can't, because their science isn't.

But again... it's all forthcoming in my book. 8)

- Bill


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:01 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 30019
Quote:
Back in the day, we hung on our Masters' every word. Back in the day, it was less sweet science and more religion. That's OK and even necessary in the beginning, but over the long run it's unhealthy.


Well, Bill, there was a time when the macrobiotics diet was all the rage, we even had meetings with the 'inventor' at George's dojo on Columbus Ave...

We had a student there, nice guy, Bob Fulton, nice but strange...he became a dealer of that crap out of his own apt...had me up there one night selling me some malodorous concoction that I threw out before going home.

But, funny thing...he told me that if I became 'macrobiotic' I would no longer need to buy toilet paper, as one on that diet was so clean that he didn't need to wipe his bottom after taking a crap.

Talk about religion.

_________________
Van


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 1:42 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2001 6:01 am
Posts: 482
Location: worcester, ma
what i find interesting in this, that every martial style has its own "prescribed" method of breathing. everyone thinks they are right and everyone else is wrong. Goju-ryu as taught by Morio Higaonna has long inhalations in thru the nose and then a quick sharp exhale that sounds like a cat choking up a hair ball. i asked my Zen roshi ( who also does Tesshu Style calligraphy and koryu swordsmanship) about the uechi breathing VS the breathing he uses, his reply "no no this is not the right way, i do not understand it" In koryu swordsmanship you breath in thru the nose and out thru the mouth with the strike smooth but with force. in calligraphy you take a deep inhalation in thru the mouth with clenched teeth making a hissing sound then hold for 2 seconds then long extended exhalation as your brush writes on the paper. so my opinion is that as long as your breathing your alive. under stress if your not getting the oxygen needed, your body will let you know.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 5:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:39 am
Posts: 20
Hello everyone.

Man, this is tougher than sending morse code, but a discussion too good to be missed.

The unauthorised translation of the Uechi master text refers to kokyu ho breathing. But It says simply that the secret is not to expel large amounts of air. Training in Boston back in 2005, a Chinese sifu asked me what was the defining feature between a novice and an expert as they can both do the forms. He said that an expert would be able to strike a minimum of 5 times on a breath. He teaches a related southern chinese system, and internal arts.

In my own estimation, what we are actually learning to perform [hopefully] is Taoist reverse abdominal breathing. That is the frame of reference I use to teach it, contrasting it with simple bellows breathing. Ties in critically with sanchin.

Chinese styles also use sound, on the inhale and the exhale. Tough to do while you hold your breath.

Toyama sensei had that skill.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 8:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:39 am
Posts: 20
Back somewhere in the mists of time I remember reading an article on breathing using a comparison of the startle response in cats and humans. Cats exhale, sink and tense for action. Humans breathe in and often experience an opposite body reaction as their core relaxes and extremities tense. Think rollercoaster drop or sudden loss of altitude experienced as an airline passenger. I tested this notion back in '87 on a family trip to Disney's space mountain. Riding with eyes closed in the dark in order to feel and respond without anticipation. It completely defeated the 'heart in the mouth' feeling that normally accompanies a sudden descent.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 5:30 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 7:05 am
Posts: 1227
Richard Gibbons: "Chinese styles also use sound, on the inhale and the exhale."

I sound like the really bad special effects in old kung fu movies. Ssssaahh!

(just to clarify, I'm not being sarcastic. I sound like I'm making the soundtrack to a movie. It feels natural, and I like to let the cat out of the bag, so to speak.)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 8:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 17068
Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
I'd like to refer Richard's posts over to this thread, as I have others.

..... Another Breathing Thread


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 4:45 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 30019
What has always been a concern to me is how our training will function under the sudden adrenaline dump that will bewilder unless you have really experienced it before.

This was something I learned the hard way while training with handguns and going through the duelatron scenario with John Farnam.

This includes any breathing we do along with techniques.

The thing to keep in mind is that we need to learn to match any breathing intensity pattern to the intensity of our physical motions/demands.

And the best way to do this is to concentrate on the exhale with intense motions pushing down from the head down to the feet to give the motion structure and grounding while remaining oxygenated.

_________________
Van


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 42 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group