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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:40 pm 
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Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Van Canna wrote:
Bill Glasheen wrote:
Decades back, George brought a Fuzhou crane master from mainland China to teach us on Thompson island.


I remember him well. That was the look of real karate to me.

At times he seemed to almost take off the ground.

He got lost in being a crane. He really hammed it up. That embellishment wasn't there in the structure he taught us.

I could picture him being the tea in the tea cup in a martial scenario. That's a special talent.

- Bill


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:42 pm 
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http://uechi-ryu.com/master-ruan-dong-rip/

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:05 pm 
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That is indeed sad, George, may he rest in peace...such a nice man. :(

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:39 pm 
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Bill

"As I understand it, that is not how Kanbun taught. But in turning Kanbun's art into a marketabe product, many teachers of very large clases decaffeinated karate."

I've really liked the whole discussion---but this line really hit home.

As I understand it, martial arts--back in the day--was a seriously "customized" product. An expert working with a specific student/s, training around and with that students specific strengths and weaknesses in mind. Very few people were all hung up on why "that" guys kata was different or why they were taught "X" instead of "Y."

You can't teach everyone the same way and expect everyone to turn out the same. Students are people and people are different.

Of course you can't really teach customized classes to 40 people at a time either.

"decaffeininated karate"......... excellent turn of phrase, if I may say so. :)

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:48 am 
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Quote:
Of course you can't really teach customized classes to 40 people at a time either.


you actually cannot teach 40 people at a time .... you can strut around and show some stuff and let people try and figure it out for themselves though ...

and its easier to make money out of it , you cant really fail a student if your not getting specific, its kind of all on them at that point .

of course sweat equity and making it a big exercise class works too .

heck if we do it the same we must be all getting there right?

Its interesting , it comes back to the objective , what are we teaching and what are we teaching for , one persons success is another failure and vice versa.

Decaffinated karate ..... interesting term but was it the caffeine that was removed or the individual confrontation of preparing for violence to the best of or personal capability?

at some point that ceased being the goal and karate became the goal , when karate become bigger than the objective , karate was doomed :)

nothing about fads , marketing , trends , its objectives that changed and objectives folks question ......

a well grounded practical realist with a good dose of ability and self responsibility , now there's an objective.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:47 pm 
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I think the problem is the dependence on kata. At some point when there are too many people in class the meaning gets lost and people start trying to invent new meanings. Styles are there for a purpose, they favour certain techniques over others, that is the reason they exist. When those techniques are forgotten, or dumbed down or shown wrongly the style changes. At which point you are far better switching to something that uses a better teaching method like boxing, or thai boxing just do that kata as an art form , this is what happened to a lot of Tai /chi.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:26 am 
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jorvik wrote:
I think the problem is the dependence on kata. At some point when there are too many people in class the meaning gets lost and people start trying to invent new meanings. Styles are there for a purpose, they favour certain techniques over others, that is the reason they exist. When those techniques are forgotten, or dumbed down or shown wrongly the style changes. At which point you are far better switching to something that uses a better teaching method like boxing, or thai boxing just do that kata as an art form , this is what happened to a lot of Tai /chi.

This is the reason you do what you do.

jorvik wrote:
you are far better switching to something that uses a better teaching method like boxing, or thai boxing

To what end? To learn how to fight in a ring with equipment and fixed rules? Only certain *techniques* allowed? If so, then yes. That's a really good fit for your mindset.

By the way... ever seen large classes of cardio boxing? Here you go!

Image

And there you are... right back where we started.

- Bill


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:27 am 
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gmattson wrote:


Yes... this is the crane master.

Image

Marty Dow (served as translator) and he developed quite a bond. They were like father/son. Marty told me that he was trying to fix him up with his daughter.

- Bill


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:10 am 
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There is a school of thought that originally the forms were "empty", meaning that they were methods of learning and practicing analysis, movement and emotional/spiritual exploration for health and survival skills. The techniques were simply learning guides that mistakenly became more important than the exploration, that could mature with the practitioner over time. Sounds good to me. :o


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:27 am 
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Ballet is a dance that is for visual effect, in order to tell a story of mind/body/spirit. Kata is a dance for kinetic effect, in order to create a mind/body/spirit story.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:44 am 
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There is culture that builds knowledge by asking questions in order to confirm their conclusions. There is a culture that finds wisdom by asking questions that have no conclusions. It's all good. :lol:


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