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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:42 am 
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this is a bit long but a good read.
http://chinesemartialstudies.com/2014/0 ... al-arts-2/

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Other traditions, especially those with relatively large followings (the various Hung Kuen movements) or those located along important trade routes (such as White Crane in Fujian) were also well situated to set up public schools, attract students, and build their reputation. However, as the reputation of these large players spread, many smaller styles suffered or disappeared. Young men who went to the cities seeking work might now join the Hung Sing Association rather than following their village style. Further, coverage in the local media helped these large local schools to not just fend off the local competition, but to really reshape how individuals thought about the martial arts in general.


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Instructors from smaller traditions were thus left with a choice. There was a good market for martial instruction, if you could break into it. To do so they could either attempt to create their own brand, in the mode of, and competing directly against, one of the larger styles. Often this meant transforming a local tradition into something more formalized, complete with a name, lineage and illustrious creation myth. Or they could attempt to ingratiate themselves with one of the more successful local “brands.”


the article makes some points to think about as far as the history of Uechi ryu and what Kanbun may have delt with in China.
the fist thing that stuck out to me in the article was that many local systems didnt have formal names. Thus both Kanbun and Miyagi would be hard pressed to give an answer to what was the name of their style. there was a very big market for martial arts instuction and after the Boxer rebelion this market dried up, people didnt want to be associated with it. that may be a more likely reason Kanbun left China. he might have been broke and thats not something you go around telling everyone and not something the next generation would pass on as the styles history. it would sound better if he left because of a students self defense situation.
i am not saying what has been passed on is incorect, i just think this is interesting.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:26 am 
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This doesn't really seem so new.

The down side of improved communication and sophisticated marketing outside of an urgent need to practice practical martial arts is the homogenization of knowledge. It's similar to how so many dialects waned as Mandarin and Cantonese took hold.

One must also remember though that the concept of a "style" in much of China's history was different than what we know of coming from Okinawa and Japan. Great teachers regularly made up their owns styles. This was probably the case with Kanbun's teacher. The body of knowledge is familiar to many styles in that region, but we don't really see "it" outside of Kanbun's tradition.

We've frozen choreography in time in much the same way as someone might freeze a piece of jazz music with a recording. In doing so, we get the chance to perfect that moment in time - a moment that quite possibly was initially intended to be fleeting. It is what it is.

Did Lincoln think people would be dissecting his Gettysburg Address centuries later? Did JFK think his Ich bin ein Berliner speech would similarly be considered a work of art to be studied and savored? Probably not. But we enjoy them nonetheless.

- Bill


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:46 am 
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Good article .

It touches on the whole style purity debate , many weren't styles just practices handed down , IMHO the styles were the forms themselves.

most of the karate style followed the same transition , you in some sense could change chinese in the article to okinawan .

most of the original karate styles went un-named

Funakoshi is on record not liking folks using shotokan insisting all karate was the related.

We all know Kanbun described the style rather than name it Paingainuun

Goju is named after a passage in the Bubishi when they were pressed for a name and came up short .

Branding was important to meet the market and at some point the popularity met the criteria to identify the founder, of course when your the one teaching the students they know the founder .... as it grows there's the need to show pride in your origins , it's human nature.

First the japanese market , then the greater world .

In fact they added material and or shifted focus to meet the market is disputable but likely , In the case of Uechi more katas and sport fighting drills filled out the model for the new students .

But often to mention this kind of thing is frowned on as people seem to think it reflects on the brand , the style purity , when in fact it's probably what saved the styles , popularised them , and allowed folks to put food on there table and continue training their arts.

but of course Kanbun never did Uechi as we know it in it's whole modern form.

people will meet the market it , happens today , If your wanting to be succesfull in scale and financially it would be foolish not too.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:19 am 
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"Did Lincoln think people would be dissecting his Gettysburg Address centuries later? Did JFK think his Ich bin ein Berliner speech would similarly be considered a work of art to be studied and savored? Probably not. But we enjoy them nonetheless.
"Did JFK even realise that he was saying " I am a doughnut" :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:02 am 
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http://www.snopes.com/language/misxlate/berliner.asp

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:47 am 
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"The Hole Truth"

Metaphorically speaking, I couldn't agree more. But I digress.

Kudos to the scholar who took the time to check sources.

- Bill


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