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 Post subject: Speaking of Sanchin
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 1998 9:57 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 16, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 671
I've had instances in performing Sanchin where after completion, I don't really recall the last few moments. I've had this happen while driving; going along for miles without recalling the last stretch of road.

Have I reach a new mental state, self hypnotized myself, a" runners high" type of thing , or is this a state of meditation I reach on just the right occasion?

I'd be interested in hearing if anyone else has had a similar experience.


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 Post subject: Speaking of Sanchin
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 1998 1:36 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 3754
Location: Richmond, VA
Kevin: I am what many call a road warrior, and frequently drive several hundred miles a day. On trips of an hour or more I mentally suspend my internal clock, or mentally go to the beach. Many times I have driven several hundred miles and felt no passage of time. When I come out of this state I look around to see where I am, which state I am in. In over 20 years, I've never missed a turn, gotten lost, got a ticket, or had an accident.

BTW, I live in central VA. This would probably be a bad practice on the Jersey Turnpike or DC Beltway.

This also happens on the aerobic machines at the gym. I usually set the stairclimber for an hour, its max, and have on occasion been so deep in the 'zone' that I do not hear the timer go off. On some days I know only that I've been climbing a lot more than an hour.

To Anthony: 7:52 for 1.5 is awfuly good.

Rich


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 Post subject: Speaking of Sanchin
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 1998 3:05 am 
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Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Kevin et al

It sounds like you and others are experiencing mushin. If you can do quality karate without conscious thought, then you are one step away from responding without thought to a surprise attack. And in the "real fight", you want to be thinking about the big picture and trust your programmed instincts to handle the details. You won't be able to handle much more under super high stress.

Bill


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 Post subject: Speaking of Sanchin
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 1998 4:06 pm 
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Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
J.D.

I'm not sure if we are argueing semantics or touching on something significant here.

There are several issues here. I'm sure Van will have his say so when he gets a chance. We are fairly close (but not exactly the same) in our thoughts on this matter.

1) The ability to do a moderately (not highly) complex task in a manner that seems simple to you because the synaptic pathways are so well structured. If you never walked up a flight of stairs, it would seem like a complex task, and would require lots of conscious thought. You could never do it under stress. But because we all have done it perhaps thousands or tens of thousands of times, it could be done even under the highest stress level.

2) The actual mindset that one should "attempt" to achieve under a highly charged situation. Yes, I've heard all the stuff about chatacholamine cocktails and other extreme physiologic states. But the fact is that some of us perform better under stress than others; it is not an absolute. Training is certainly a factor, as is the genetic tendencies for mental disposition under stress.

By the way, there is a quote in the Tao of Jeet Kune Do that is worth mentioning. Something about not being tense but ready, not thinking but not dreaming, etc, etc, It describes this Platonic ideal of a mindset better than any description I've seen. I'll post it when I can get my hands on the book.

Bill


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 Post subject: Speaking of Sanchin
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 1998 2:48 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 28, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 4
Location: Lakeland,FL 33813
Kevin, GEM's book "Uechiryu Karate Do" pg.460 may be speaking to your experience. Just a brief excerpt-"As the monk continued to practice the excerice he soon mastered the physical movements to such a degree where he no longer had to think about them as he practiced them. At this stage, he experienced the second purpose of Sanchin; namely a type of enlightenment where thought process is not necessary to perform an action." On pg.461 "What principles of Zen or Buddhism do we find in karate? A. The Enlightenment, or ultimate awareness, attained by diligent study of the active mediations, or formal exercises of karate. B. Losing of one's Ego in advanced study of Karate." I think you are developing your awareness to the point where, at times, while doing the kata, you are so involved that you forget yourself and directly experience the "Now". This is much more than memory loss and is not the result of a degenerative disease process. What you describe is not measurable by current scientific methods, but this does not mean it's not real. (Do you take medication? Just kidding.) Keep up the good work. davids

[This message has been edited by DMS1050 (edited 11-03-98).]


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 Post subject: Speaking of Sanchin
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 1998 8:14 pm 
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Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
David

Actually this kind of state of mind can indeed be detected. It is associated with a preponderance of neurons in the brain firing at a specific frequency, also referred to at times as the alpha state.

Some have said that Albert Einstein was once monitored on an EEG while doing calculations. Supposedly he could do integral calculus while in the alpha state, and only ventured out of that mindset when he ran across a new problem. Must be nice!

Bill


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