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 Post subject: Glucosamine
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 1998 3:07 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 17068
Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
J.D.

Your skepticism is very healthy. You would most definitely find a home in my research group.

First, you (of all people) should know that the biggest problem with putting "M.D." after a name is that it gives some people (not all) license to think they know it all. As my boss (who is a Yale/UVa trained M.D.) says, "M.D.s are nothing more than highly-educated technicians." Some of the biggest know-it-alls and quacks I know of are in the medical profession. Evidenced-based care? Baloney - many physicians (like many from all walks of life that you criticize) practice on tradition and folklore. I know - I follow physician practice patterns on 1.8 million people. Give be a good reason why DePaul hospital has a 14% C-Section rate and Columbia Henrico Doctors hospital has a 30% C-Section rate. Tell me why some of our M.D.s are giving many of their patients B12 injections. Tell me why most of our primary care physicians are treating viral sinus infections with 3rd-tier antibiotics. Why are some of our obstetricians so eager to relieve their patients of their uterus? Why do we have a Richmond-area cardiologist doing cardiac stress tests on asymptomatic people that come into his clinics from advertisements? Why does one of our gastroenterologists ALWAYS find pre-cancerous polups every time he puts a scope up peoples' rear ends? Why do urologists INSIST every man over 50 get PSAs when the false-positive rate is so high AND most men die WITH prostate cancer rather than FROM it? Good thing they've come up with Viagra to help (some of) those who have gone under the knife. Now they can impress Myrtle once again....after they remove their diaper.

And why is it that M.D.s know so much about the most expensive and recent drugs and are so willing to prescribe them (irrespective of their relative incremental efficacy vs the alternatives)? Oh yea.....it's those well-dressed, buff (beefcake, cheesecake) drug reps that come into M.D. offices every day with pizza parties and ice cream and "conferences" at the most expensive local restaurants or at tropical luxury resorts. I should know - my wife never has to bring lunch to work. My house is littered with clocks and night lights and writing implements and, and, and ad nauseum with drug names on them.

But I'm no fool - I own Merke stock.

I'm like you - I no longer hold anyone's word sacred. I want the evidence.

With those thoughts in mind.....

* There is indeed a voluminous trail of literature establishing that glucosamine does indeed get where it is supposed to get when orally injested. There has indeed been research establishing the increase in production of glycoaminoglycans after oral injestion of glucosamine. Criticisms about oral injestion of glucosamine are indeed worth consideration. There are multiple responses to those criticisms. The work in the literature is still coming out.

* Interestingly enough, the pop-medicine book out on the market that has made glucosamine a household term (The Arthritis Cure) was written by an orthopedic surgeon. Let me match my Orthopedist against yours, and see who kicks butt :-)

* Whenever you have people who don't know what they are doing self-prescribing ANY over-the-counter substance, you will get abuse. No arguments there.

Sorry, J.D., I guess I'm just full of chi today.


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 Post subject: Glucosamine
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 1998 3:34 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 61
Location: dartmouth, ns canada
A few years ago I was doing a lot of aerobics, mostly step classes, and some weight training, and of course, a lot of Uechi training. I was having trouble with my knees (geez, my posts are starting to sound like injury war stories) mostly pain when I exercised and climbed stairs etc. So I went to see a prominent orthopedic surgeon in my area. He has a great reputation, and from my experience with him, I had to agree that he seemed knowledgeable. He sent me for x-rays, and it turns out my patella is slightly out of alignment on both knees. I was apparently born that way, and it hadn’t turned problematic until I started really working out a lot. He told me that I could just go ahead and work out through the pain, that I needed to build up my quadriceps even more than they were. My knees were not yet bad enough to require surgery, so he sent me to see a physiotherapist for ideas for strengthening them, and told me to return to him when I could not manage the pain, and he would operate. So I went to physio, and worked on building my quads up. The results from physio were spectacular, and I am happy to say that my knee pain has completely disappeared. Anyway, I am glad I went to see an orthopedic surgeon, and a physiotherapist. I am pretty sure that I can avoid surgery indefinitely, and that physiotherapy (and my efforts) fixed my “real problem.”

Regards,

Natalie


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 Post subject: Glucosamine
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 1998 3:50 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 61
Location: dartmouth, ns canada
Hello Rich-

I have access to this great research book on PNF (the research was done here in Halifax -Dalhousie University on athletes), it's about 30-45 pages long, and if you are interested I would be happy to photocopy it for you and mail you a copy or fax it. Feel free to email me at natalie@arcom.ca


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 Post subject: Glucosamine
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 1998 4:28 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 17068
Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Rich

I have heard from those "in the know" that the term proprioceptive neuromuscular facilitation is a bit of a misnomer. It's certainly a mouthful. No wonder everyone says PNF.

Proprioceptive means stimulus arising from within the organism. As you know, you do an isometric contraction of the muscle that is fully stretched. YOU do the work.

Neuromuscular refers to the fact that stretching is (often) more than a physical process on a passive muscle. Often the stretch reflex is fighting you in a stretch.

Facilitation is the increasing of the ease or intensity of a response by repeated stimulation.

So what does it all mean? Basically you get better results from stretching a muscle when you first isometrically contract it while fully stretched.

By the way, CRAC stands for Contraction, Relaxation, Antagonistic Contraction. The goal is to make the stretch reflex go away so that the muscle you want to stretch will fully relax. So you contract the agonist (the one you are working on), relax, and then contract the antagonist (the one opposite to the one you are working on). CRAC is PNF with bells and wistles.

To Natalie

Please send Rich your material. I can get a copy from him. We like input!

Bill


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 Post subject: Glucosamine
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 1998 12:35 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 3754
Location: Richmond, VA
Natalie: Thanks for the interest. I'll email you shortly.
Rich


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