Uechi-Ryu.com

Discussion Area
It is currently Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:58 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 1998 12:01 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 17076
Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
J.D. WROTE:

I am not stringently against antioxidants. It seems like a neat idea. Unfortunately, they have not panned out in clinical studies.

I REPLY:

Gosh, J.D., you made this one too easy. If you had said "they have not panned out for such-and-such", then I would have needed to be much more specific. Since you did not, then I went to the literature to look at one of the most researched applications of antioxidants in wellness and prevention.

REVIEW ARTICLE:

Packer L. Protective role of vitamin E in biological systems. American Journal of Clinical Nutrution 1991; 53 (Suppl. 1): 1050-1055s.

Vitamin E is an antioxidant which may protect cells from peroxidative & free radical damage. This is a review of 135 articles. It suggests that free radicals which result from air pollution (mainly ozone and nitrous oxide) can be reduced by adequate intake of Vitamin E and other antioxidants.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 1998 12:16 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 17076
Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
There is a LOT of research on the clinical outcome of people with osteoarthritis of the knee consuming glucosamine for several months. Much of it is very mediocre. This one struck me has having the design and numbers of patients to make it worthy of mention.

Rovati LC International Journal of Tissue Reactions 1992; 14: 243-251.

This is an article on short and long term trials with "disease modifying" drugs. It consistes of 3 double blinded studies totaling 606 patients. The dependent variables measured were pain and movement of the osteoarthritic knee. The conclusion is that with 4-6 weeks of treatment, glucosamine was as effective as ibuprofen, and better than placebo. Furthermore, 37% of the ibuprofen group suffered adverse reactions vs 7% of the glucosamine group.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 1998 12:46 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 17076
Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
The research on chondroitin is not as extensive or conclusive. Here is one positive finding.

Morreale et al: Comparison of the anti-inflammatory efficasy of chondroitin sulfate and diclofenac sodium in patients with knee osteoarthritis. Journal of Rheumatology 1996; 23: 1385-1391.

This was a randomized, multicenter, double blind, dlurble dummy study of 146 patients. Dependent variable - subjective responses to questionnaires. Conclusions:

* NSAIDs gave prompt & plain relief of symptoms that reappeared after the end of treatment.

* Chondroitin sulfate gave a response that occured later, but it lasted 3 months after the end of treatment.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 1998 1:15 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 17076
Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
For Chris:

There's been a lot of research on garlic over the years. I sifted through a lot of stuff. I will paraphrase what I found.

Aqueous extracts of garlic have a compound called allicin which has fungicidal activity, and ajoene which has bacteriocidal activity. The problem with allicin is that it can be found in the blood after oral injesting, but it hasn't been shown to make it where you most need it for fungal infections (vaginal and urinary tract). In vitro studies do seem to support the "immune boosting" effects of ajoene on human cells.

So....there does seem to be some promise for the bacteriocidal activity from oral injestion, but I'd say the jury is still out. I'd still consider garlic to be more valuable for some of its other properties (most notably the way it makes food taste). If it makes your Chinese food taste better, then hoping for a little serendipity is not a bad thing.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 1998 2:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 17076
Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
J.D.

Interesting comments.

I understand the difference between a statistically siginificant outcome vs a clinically significant outcome. We split those hairs all the time in health services research and quality improvement.

Again, you are very vague in your comments. I'm well aware of some of the failed research efforts like the use of beta carotene with Finnish smokers, etc. However, there is also a substantial body of evidence linking diets that are high in fruiits and vegetables with low risks of many diseases, as well as a link between viatamin E and lowered risk of CAD. I would be curious to know exactly what antioxidant research your group is doing. Antioxidants work at so many different levels in the biochemical maze, there are so many different types of antioxidants, and there are both exogenous and endogenous types. Just because one researcher fails to get his pet project to work doesn't mean the concept isn't clinically valid. And isn't protection against exposure to ozone and nitrous oxide (substances which produce free radicals in the body) a clinically significant finding?

Just to let you know that I appreciate where you are coming from...It's one thing to see people who eat a certain diet having an improved quality of life and theorize that the antioxidant substances in what they consume protect them from pathology. It's another thing altogether to take a substance that has known antioxidant properties and demonstrate it protects against a specific type of free radical damage. I agree that this particular line of research is still quite sparse.

It never ceases to amaze me how little western medicine knows about nutrition and in particular the field of nutritional pharmacology. Admit it, J.D., your exposure to nutrition in medical school amounted to maybe one lecture, right? Who knows, you could have been preoccupied that day dreaming obscene thoughts about that large breasted coed that was batting her eyes at you the weekend before. That's pathetic when you consider the impact that lifestyle has on quality of life. The problem is that transplants and neural grafts and endoscopic surgery are far sexier than teaching Mr. Jones to eat his All Bran. And we haven't yet figured out how to get Mr. Jones to do what we want him to do anyhow. If there were success in that arena, then only the truly stupid would be smoking today.

One final comment about the glucosamine. Research has shown that very few products being sold on the open market actually have biologically active glucosamine. Of course you know your friend was but one data point but...he may have been consuming crap from a nice bottle.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 1998 12:14 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 3754
Location: Richmond, VA
Actual clinical test on fresh garlic by fisherpersons. I am not making this up. Eat fresh garlic, say 3 or 4 cloves of it a day, and mosquitos will not mess with you. On one particularly buggy fishing trip to Alaska a few years ago, fresh roasted garlic was served like fresh roasted peanuts in Virginia. It works.

BTW, the bunk area was pretty ripe as well, but no mosquitos.

Rich


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group