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 Post subject: One punch kill
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 1998 4:37 pm 
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Freak punch kills student
ORLANDO, Fla. (Reuters) - A construction worker was being held on murder charges Thursday after a student at a central Florida high school died from a single punch to the head in a school yard confrontation, police said.

Mark Thornton, a 16-year-old junior at University High School near Orlando, dropped to the ground and never got up after Wednesday's incident, Orange County Sheriff's spokesman Angelo Nieves said. He was later pronounced dead at Florida Hospital-East.

Omar Witt, a 20-year-old construction worker who showed up at the campus just after classes were dismissed for the day, was being held on a charge of second degree murder, Nieves said.

Witt and some friends had confronted Thornton about the alleged harassment of a girl they knew. The dispute escalated when someone shouted a racial slur at Witt, who is black, Nieves said.

Although Thornton denied uttering the slur, Witt slugged him in the temple.

"At that time he went down. There's no indication that he ever got up again," Nieves said. An autopsy will determine whether Thornton died instantly.

School spokeswoman April Podnar said school officials will review campus security measures.

"While its not uncommon for a fight to break out on a school campus, you have to admit that its extremely rare that one punch would result in a death," she said.


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 Post subject: One punch kill
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 1998 6:22 pm 
Hello George.

I remember some years back, two high school students were duking it out and one hit the other square in the chest causing his heart to stop, killing him. The dead boy had no (prior) heart problems, it was revealed later.

Allen


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 Post subject: One punch kill
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 1998 8:30 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 20, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 75
Mattson Sensei, et al,

There are several nerve endings around the area as well that are all within a correct activation cycle with each other, so from a Kyusho standpoint it makes sense as well. Listing them as GB-1, Tw-23, GB-2 & 3,
TW-22 also some of the grabbing that may have preceeded the shot to the temple could have activated or facilitated the nerves and made them more sensitive.

There are several Kata that have single or double strikes to this area as your own beloved Seisan, Tai Chi (strike ears with fist position) Wing Chun, Tons of Kempo Kata as well.

As Glasheen Sensei said it may have just been a haevy blow that traumatized the brain.

Evan Pantazi


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 Post subject: One punch kill
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 1998 5:39 am 
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Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
First, it's difficult to respond properly without knowing where the person was hit and at what angle the attack came, as well as how his body hit the ground and what surface he ultimately fell on.

But it is well known that the temple is a thin layer of bone, leaving it possible for force to enter and do damage to the brain from a single punch. Several other factors come into play here if what was written is true. A punch to the temple likely came from a lateral blow to the head (the proverbial haymaker). This would result in a violent spin of the head. The brain is protected very well from blows to the head that are orthogonal to the surface. The space between the brain and the skull has - in most folks - just the right distance and just the right amount of cerebrospinal fluid to act as a shock absorber. However violent rotational forces can cause the brain to bounce off the skull.

Furthermore, sometimes the fall itself is the killer. In the Boom Boom Mancini vs Duk Duk Kim fight, replays show a clearly unconscious Kim falling backwards after a series of blows and his head bouncing off the mat like a basketball. When the protective muscular tension is completely gone, the centrifugal force on the head of falling back from the feet complete with a rope-loose neck can be considerable.

So there are three possible causes of sufficient force to the brain that could elicit the probable cause of death: cerebral hemorrhage. Simple Newtonian mechanics.

The attacker was probably considerably powerful.

[This message has been edited by Bill Glasheen (edited 12-11-98).]


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 Post subject: One punch kill
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 1998 9:42 am 
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Location: LA, CA, USA
A few months ago there were articles in two major papers about direct strikes to the heart causing instant failure. Seems medical researchers found that due to biological rhythms if you hit the heart at _exactly_ the right one one-hundredth of a second you can stop its functions. This is a fluke thing which has apparently kills a little-league baseball player once in awhile, due to an unluckily imperfect pitch.

I am fairly sure that I read about this in the Wall Street Journal and either USA Today or the New York Times.

I _did_ read this myself, so its not an urban legend.

Also, don't forget that an already injured brain can be pushed into fatal territory and shut down body functions be a blow that would normally not do much damage by itself. Happens to boxers.

Humans are strange, sometimes tough as cockroaches, sometimes fragile as a new born bird.

Scaramouche


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 Post subject: One punch kill
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 1998 1:07 am 
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What I will describe will be devoid of the medical implications as I can not say what goes on in the instances I am about to recount.

I have seen Dillman Sensei strike the back of the Tricep (TW-12) bringing the Uke off his feet and onto the knees. He the flicked the corner of the eyebrow with his fingers and out the Uke went.

I have seen in sparring matches, a glove glanced off this area back to front and out went the lights.

I personally out of an opening bow of Kata Nai Fuan Chin (Nai Han Chi) slapped this area with the fingers, again back to front, (don't try this at home but this was both sides at the same time) and it was lights out again.

Again no medical reason but it put the recipient out.

Evan Pantazi

[This message has been edited by evanpantazi (edited 12-12-98).]


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 Post subject: One punch kill
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 1998 1:39 am 
Hello DX.

When I was run over I suffered head trauma; huge swelling, described as grapefruit-size (I don't know -- I wasn't there), but no skull fracture. Doctors' opinions agreed this was the cause of my coma but were divided whether the blow to my head, hairline fracture on T12, or coccyx damage as discovered later, was the cause of my paralysis (I was quadriplegic for awhile) after the accident.

In one fight I was in, years before, I was backed against a brick wall in an alleyway. I ducked a haymaker which stopped the fight right then and there as he smartly (smart-for-me, that is) connected the wall and broke his hand. If he would have nailed me, not only would he have hit my faceis strike would have banged the back of my head against the wall, maybe with similar results as described in the above paragraph.

Blows to the head are dangerous.

Allen


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 Post subject: One punch kill
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 1998 2:21 am 
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Adding to what has been written about the chest blow causing death, the phenomenon is called commotio cordis (I know you know, J.D.), and usually happens to younger athletes with rather thin chest walls. You need to hit a thin chest with sufficient force over the heart, and it needs to be when some of the myocardial cells are completely repolarized, whearas some are still in the refractory (can't fire) period. This is at a very specific and narrow interval whithin the "T" wave of the electocardiogram.

As J.D. said, better luck winning the lottery. It's dumb luck or very bad dumb luck, depending on the situation and perspective.

This is very, very different from the temple blow phenomenon. The only thing in common is the fact that it took one blow. The temple is a more reliable target if you ever become a soldier of fortune.

If it weren't so tragic, some of the phenomena J.D. describes about head wounds could be very fascinating stuff. You really learn a lot about how systems work when things start going wrong with them. Years back a student of mine got a concussion when he missed my spinning hook kick in the OLD version of dan kumite. Some of the thought, speech, and gesture patterns he exhibited as we were waiting for medical attention gave me a rare view of the brain at work (on half empty). Fortunately he got through that episode with a little tincture of time.


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