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 Post subject: The venus fly trap
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 1999 10:36 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 17068
Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Have you ever considered the big picture when assessing a fight situation?

In various cyber skirmishes I have witnessed, I marvel at the differences in style of the many participants. Sometimes it starts because someone is insensitive and the others are hypersensitive. Sometimes it starts because several parties have a dislike for each other. And then there are those situations where I sense a darker, Machiavelian air. In this situation, the party enters and clearly wants to start a conflict. This party or parties may want to embarrass someone or set them up for a challenge.

When I was younger, I was a creature of the night. If it weren't for a son and HIS school schedule, I'd probably still be staying up until 4 AM on most nights. These late nights gave me ample opportunity to witness and occasionally be the target of a number of fight situations. Three scenarios come to mind.

In one scenario, a group of folks are walking towards you. In the group is a very small fellow who happens to bump (or sometimes just punch) you as he goes by. They wait for a response.

In a second situation (one that happened to me), a fellow comes up to you and asks you if you want to scrap or fight or wrestle. His disposition is lively if not exactly "normal". Two of his friends are "lurking" in the background.

And in a third situation, you witness a "good cop, bad cop" situation. Person A is out of control. Person B is friendly, and warns you about Person A. Person B has an agenda.

It's easy to read about these things and imagine what the proper response is. But I wonder just what kind of variability in response there is among people. And what kinds of responses lead to the best outcomes? How often do we walk around with our emotional soft spots exposed for others to take advantage of? Too often I see "emotional" behavior get the best of someone. A smart adversary is able to capitalize on this, even if the emotion translates to aggression. In fact I'm willing to bet that some of the most dangerous adversaries actually count on and anticipate that aggressive and/or emotional response.

Without going into re-writing DeBecker's book, I'm wondering if others have observed and had thoughts about these "traps" that are out there waiting for the gullible and for those that cannot control their ego, temper, aggresion and fear.

[This message has been edited by Bill Glasheen (edited 01-27-99).]


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 Post subject: The venus fly trap
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 1999 10:09 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 13, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 35
"...I'm wondering if others have observed and had thoughts about these "traps" that are out there waiting for the gullible and for those that cannot control their ego, temper, aggresion and fear."

Speaking as one who has laid a few "traps", particularily for the egotistical, mal-adjusted, aggressive and fearful [usually manifested together and such easy prey], ostensibly to reveal and enlighten and cause the conditions for reform from such. On reflection, I feel it was more arrogance than compassion and have refrained from the practice as of late...


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 Post subject: The venus fly trap
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 1999 11:08 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 2073
Location: Boston, MA
I have seen the first situation often enough. The second and third, never. I never stick around long enough to get into that. All three situations, listen to DeBecker by listening to your gut.

Joseph, Animal MacYoung describes baiting situations in some of his books. He sees it, he laughs about and he has his fixed blade out tucked neatly and obscurely against his leg. The last laugh would be on the idiots who push it thinking it's "fun and games".

david


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 Post subject: The venus fly trap
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 1999 2:38 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 13, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 35
yes, whenever we are posturing, there's something left out that we cannot be aware of...reality


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 Post subject: The venus fly trap
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 1999 6:57 am 
Situation One: In one scenario, a group of folks are walking towards you. In the group is a very small fellow who happens to bump (or sometimes just punch) you as he goes by. They wait for a response.


I was walking one the sidewalk that runs along the Provincial Parliament grounds as a couple drunks walked towards me. The one that passed closest to me threw a wicked elbow. A slight pivot and a slight push and he went sailing down the hill beside the sidewalk with his friend trying to catch up to him.


Situation Two: In a second situation (one that happened to me), a fellow comes up to you and asks you if you want to scrap or fight or wrestle. His disposition is lively if not exactly "normal". Two of his friends are "lurking" in the background.


Was walking in the public area of my office building when a very agitated man came up to me with his fists raised egging me to try him out. I smiled and distanced with hands up, palms facing him, telling him he looked far too tough for me.


Situation Three: And in a third situation, you witness a "good cop, bad cop" situation. Person A is out of control. Person B is friendly, and warns you about Person A. Person B has an agenda.


Never ran into it.


It all cases I was in a mind set that Marc MacYoung uses to define the difference between an amateur and a professional. "An amateur will look at you and decide IF he can take you. A pro will look at you and decide HOW to take you."


Rick


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 Post subject: The venus fly trap
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 1999 12:53 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 2423
Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
Bill Sensei:

I haven't read DeBecker. A reference to it would be helpful, then I cn get it at the library.

I am on the road a lot and interact with a few students who are also.

We had 2 "road rage" incidents in the past few months one involved me and the other a real nice (but very big) student at the Quincy Dojo.

In the first, I actually was a fault and cut the fellow off. So, when he waved me over I figure "better stop-might be an off duty cop"
He got out of the car yelling that I screwed up and "do you want to go right now?". I backed up out of range and said "I'm standing right here." He went through the cycle again, and again I backed up. Visons of the headline "local attorney assaults youth" beating a path to my brain.

Eventually he got back in the car and drove away. Kicking someone with a "shod foot" is ADW in this People's Republic Of Massachusetts.

My friend (let's say Pete) got into a similar situation. He couldn't back away far enough and the guy through a punch. Now Pete is a Big Stong student and why anyone would provoke him escapes me. In any event Pete kicked him with a sort of side thrust (he is flexible enough to trhow it without alway turning his hip ) and more or less knocked the fellow down without hurting him too bad.

The road rager left Pete standing there with his hands up.

Question:

Don't get out of the car?
Don't react to rage?
Don't use a "shod foot"?

Pete was a bit worried about the legal possibilities of assualt with a dealy weapon. I told him he should have been, as he would have to make a case for being justifiably scared enough to use potentially deadly force and I didn't handle that type of work anymore.

Feedback (not exactly on point I apologize).

Just to make matters worse, this is also an "escape if you can" state.

JOHN T.
dojo

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 Post subject: The venus fly trap
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 1999 1:28 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 157
Location: Evansville, IN, USA
"The Gift of Fear"
by Dr. Gavin DeBecker.

Available commonly in the "Self Help" section of the book store. Most libraries should have a copy too.

The book discusses fear & intuition as gifts to humanity to help us survive but that we commonly overshadow and ignore due to reason and logic (often with negative results).

Personally, I found the book contained many more lessons in how people think, including myself. The are weaknesses, or peculiarities, in human thinking that I am trying now to shore up and make into strengths or correct. A outstanding book ... and truly one of the few books that could save you life, and that is not an exageration.

Osu!
Jason
"Fear only occurs for something that is going to happen, not something that is happening. So rest assured if you are scared whatever you are scared of hasn't happened yet."

- Dr. Gavin DeBecker


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