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 Post subject: Anthony's mental state
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 1999 2:17 pm 
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Posts: 35
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I am litterly moving through a sub-reality when I do Kata in this way. Another part of the world that is hidden from view. The expression in my kata is nothing more than that of a torch. It's like bringing a torch into a cave. that's all....when my spirit is quickened, I see all!

Anthony<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Anthony, it's your cave that you're in
and i, fowl beast, lurking therein,
shall not further to write on those walls,
compounding the view that they exist at all.

to my sewing room i go,
thread bare and tattered
my patch robe to repair
as if it all mattered...


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 Post subject: Anthony's mental state
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 1999 2:23 pm 
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Posts: 671
JD, tell me Stuart Copeland doesn't experience Mushin? IMHO, he is Isshidan of the percussion world.

Kevin


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 Post subject: Anthony's mental state
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 1999 2:47 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 2431
Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
Anthony:

Your "furnace" point to me is well taken.
Kata is to you what it is to you.

However, my furnace does not burn as brightly as yours, perhaps it should. As I think you said Mushin may be where the body reacts correctly to a stimuli without specific intsruction from the thinking side of your brain. Yet it would seem to be more than reflex. At least it would be a reflex consciously created and continually being amended and recreated.

A person on Bob Campbells forum asked if QiQong (Chi Kung) would appropriately supplement Uechi. My answer (and I apologize for overstepping) was that there are many forms of Chi Kung and that Sanchin is the closest Uechi has to being a "Chi Kung" which may reflect back on our consideration of Sanchin Breathing vs. Kiai.

Maybe this deserves a different thread.


I would restate one of the Dojo Kun for you (Gichin Funakoshi's version) "Guard against impetuos courage". No criticism intended, since I could certainly use a little (LOT) of the fire in your furnace.

JOHNT

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 Post subject: Anthony's mental state
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 1999 5:07 am 
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Anthony:

I can't quite completely understand your jewel and shell analogy. But I will work on it.

Kata, with the possible exception of Sanchin when done as a "Qi Qong" should probably be practiced the way you describe it to keep you in a "Defensive Mindset" by "visualizing" your opponents.

There are other focuses and benefits, but I think the point you hit upon is critical---unless one just wants to dance.

JOHNT

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 Post subject: Anthony's mental state
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 1999 2:24 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 29, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 204
Anthony,

My dilemma is how to get this written and still get to class on time...

Couple of thoughts on your (or my, for that matter) pursuit of mushin.

You talked at one point about mushin being "a deliberate attenuation of reasoning." I guess for me (in fact, plese mentally insert the words "for me" liberally throughout the rest of this...) it's more that when I am "thinking" about what I am doing, I am not as completely immersed in what I am doing as I could be. I very concrete example that I mentioned recently on another forum is the traditional training I do in kenjutsu and iaijutsu with live blades. This focusses the attention remarkably well! (although perhaps someone will now start a thread on my mental state). Nevertheless, my point is that were I to begin thinking things like "am I doing this right" or visualizing cutting someone down while practicing these, I will not be able to complete the movements correctly. With live blades, the feedback is fairly unequivocal...

In the vein of all the book recommendations flying around lately, I want to add the book "Flow" to the list (the author's name is - ready for this - Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi). Without saying too much about it [gotta go], it describes some of the "zone" experiences talked about above in very pragmatic, "western" terms.

Lastly, Anthony, I had some fun imagining the look on the face of whomever was asking the questions at your test! I had a mental picture of one of the sometimes inflexible test boards from years past- no offense intented to anyone - the standards these boards upheld brought us to where we are today... but anyway, I had this vision of a bunch of folks sitting in a back room somewhere, looking down a list of "acceptable" reasons for training and saying "nope, it's not on here - what the hell do we do now?"

greg


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 Post subject: Anthony's mental state
PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 1999 7:55 pm 
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I agree with you Tony ! Both sensei David Elkins and I believe that Uechi Ryu is and should be taught as a study in " bodyset" { A phrase borrowed from Lori san } motion rather than situation specific techniques which work well in the dojo but vanish in a real fight !{ this will never sink in no matter how much we discuss it } ! Thus your answer of the kick being in the sanchin arm thrust , is not that far fetched !



Peace,

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Van Canna

[This message has been edited by VAN CANNA (edited 03-07-99).]


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 Post subject: Anthony's mental state
PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 1999 8:06 pm 
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Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
Anthony and Sensei Van:

I can only give my present opinion(s) of which we all have a trunkfull.

I understand what you are saying here and although I do not completely understand/agree, I hope I show proper resepct by listening. learning and keeping and open mind.

Nobody, least of all me, would seek to diminish Anthony's natural "fire". This would be petty.


JOHN T

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 Post subject: Anthony's mental state
PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 1999 8:50 pm 
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Hi J.T.,

I hope you did not take my post as a slight to you ! Just banter in general !We all have strong opinions and it is good ; provided we exchange them so we can all get different perspectives on the same concept! Karate means different things to different folks , depending on their make up , training and experiences both inside and outside of the dojo or tournament halls !

You are too much of a gentleman for me to even think of offending !

Are you back into shooting?

Best,


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Van Canna

[This message has been edited by VAN CANNA (edited 03-07-99).]


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 Post subject: Anthony's mental state
PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 1999 9:47 pm 
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Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
Van Sensei:

Thank you for your post. I hope to get back into position (DCM) rifle shooting this Spring. I basically missed last "season" because everyone in our little Dojo was "going up" for something. My week is tied pretty well up in Real Estate Law practice so most of my Martial Arts time is on the weekends. When I "teach" Friday night I am pretty well toast.

All the concept (or a lot anyway) that people have posted have given much pause for reflection.

I wanted to shoot the Winter League at O.C., but kept wandering of to Tai chi or a Uechi workout somewhere on sundays.

I understand what 'the hidden kick' concept is and I hope to understand and incorporate the 'bodyset' idea and some of Anthony's fire in the belly.

My opinion on "hidden kicks" comes from cross training where a foot is left unweighted and weght is continually shifting and rarely static or on two feet. It is difficult. It's a different bodyset, and I am not the one to say (yet) that it is better or worse.

I certainly appreciate your consideration of my opinion and feelings and I hope to "speak" to you again.

I left a question for you on another forum and I am interested in your input.

JOHNT

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 Post subject: Anthony's mental state
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 1999 5:12 am 
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Posts: 2431
Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
Actually there really aren't any kicks in Sanchin.

If you put them in, it's not Sanchin. This question on the testing boards has been around for years and is intended to get you to think on two levels and see the paralells in body movement as you step vis a vis the Sokuto Geri.

The second paragraph I think contains the answer expected.

I guess it all depends on how you view the form.

I am over simplistic. A 'hidden' kick controversy seems more appropos in Seisan (jump) where Kanbun was actually supposed to have injected two kicks (another item that has been "around the horn" a few times), but at least there there are two point where one's knee is raised and point towards an opponent.

Sanchin implies a more or less immediate weight shift to the forward foot after stepping. If there was a hidden kick you would expect it to beone steps through or back into or forward into a cat (thus leaving the leg unglued to the ground). The ends of the double circular blocks (in Seirui and Seichin and Sanseirui) where one is in Kamae with one foot unweighted would be more "obvious."

However, it's almost traditional to raise the question about "kicks in Sanchin".

It was perhaps disingenuous of me to give what I thought was the expected answer at the time.

Even though I did not completely agree.

You have more courage in this area
Anthony.


JD:

Ginger Baker, "Ringo", Mick Fleetwood?

I agree with you on Buddy Rich and Gene Krupa.

JOHN T
JOHN T

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