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 Post subject: Greece
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 1999 12:40 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 1897
Location: N. Andover, Ma. USA
Please pardon this question, but I sat at my computer for an hour and a half searching for Schools in Athens. After this search I found 1, I did contact the Schools listed on Mattson Sensei's directory, One turned to yoga and no response for the other. Does anyone know of any Martial Arts Schools in Greece?

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Evan Pantazi
http://www.erols.com/kyusho


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 Post subject: Greece
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 1999 3:03 am 
There was once a Pankration dojo in Boston. Wonder if they still exist, and more importantly if they do exist, they might have some ties. Just an isolated clue.

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Allen - uechi@ici.net - http://www.uechi-ryu.org


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 Post subject: Greece
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 1999 12:08 pm 
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Location: N. Andover, Ma. USA
Allen San,

Thank you for the info. Actually when I move my school location this May I will be moving one block away from a Pankration School. It will be interesting to see if Dojo wars are a thing of the past or if the Arts have mellowed.

I really don't care what Martial Art it is. I may be vacationing in Greece this June and would like some contacts to write my trip off as a business expense, (this should be on the Marketing Forum). I have some time to maybe line up a seminar or meet with school owners in Athens to set up future business, (and more time abroad).

For those Professional Martial Artists out there, this is a great way to get around and save money. Figure out some location you would want to vacation at and call ahead to see if you could set up a seminar or attend a seminar, as your travel and some of the other incurred expense then becomes deductable! (Ahh what a business)!

Anyone else know of any Arts over there?



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Evan Pantazi
http://www.erols.com/kyusho


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 Post subject: Greece
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 1999 5:52 am 
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Hi Evan-san,

Ran a quick search and found a couple of martial arts schools in Greece - don't know if any of these are near where you will be travelling - but they may be a place to start - and they may even be able to hook you up with more connections.

Hapkido: http://204.83.206.85/syrigos.htm
****okan Isshinryu: <href="http://****o-kan-karate.com/index.htm"TARGET=_new>http://****o-kan-karate.com/index.htm</A> (this guy has lectured on the martial arts in Greece, if you email him he may have some info for you.
Ninpo Taijutsu: http://www.compulink.gr/users/electra/welcome.htm
WingChun: http://www.wingchun.org/country/greece.html
(found the most schools listed here)

Some more came up on the search - but I didn't have time to follow any more to weed out the junk - here's a search tip: Choose a search engine (infoseek, hotbot, msn, whatever you like) and type in "martial arts+greece" that will narrow your search to sites that mention martial arts and Greece on the same page. I found some pages that were just listing events in Greece vs. school locations - but hopefully the above will give you a starting point.

Have a wonderful trip!

Sidenote: The isshinryu address above has **** (thanks to the "objectionable language editor" of the forum software) in place of the actual letters sh_t - with an i instead of the underscore - couldn't get the real address to list correctly because it's interpreted as an embedded curse word - just copy and paste the address and substitute the 4letter word for the asteriks.

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Peace,
Lori
email: <A HREF="mailto:lori_san@hotmail.com">lori_san@hotmail.com</A>
website: www.mindspring.com/~uechi-ryu
Please see the rules and regulations of this forum at: www.xpres.net/~gmattson/ubbs/charter.html


[This message has been edited by Lori (edited 03-20-99).]


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 Post subject: Greece
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 1999 11:58 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 1897
Location: N. Andover, Ma. USA
Lori San,

My many thanks for your time and effort. Thank you also for the valuable info on the search process, what a wellspring of information and help this forum can be!

Again Lori, thank you.

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Evan Pantazi
http://www.erols.com/kyusho


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 Post subject: Greece
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 1999 1:12 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 2437
Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
Evan- Sensei:

The Book that I have shows Shoehei Dojos in Slovenia, and other countries, but nothing in Greece. Fortunately, Lori apparently located something.

JOHN T

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 Post subject: Greece
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 1999 8:37 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 2437
Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
JD:

Right. Now if I could just find a copy of the 1970's Kyuhan (Kyuhon?) for less than $3000, I'd be happy.


JOHN

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 Post subject: Greece
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 1999 1:32 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 3754
Location: Richmond, VA
Ah yes, the 'Big blue Book'. John T. - is your picture in the supplement?
Rich


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 Post subject: Greece
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 1999 4:16 pm 
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Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
Rich:

Unfortunately my picture IS in the supplement.

I usually try ot avoid such embarrasment.

At least they took "prisoner no. 32156" of the lower part. They also left out the profiles.

It's in Jack Summer's Dojo section. I

try not to think of it.

I am (shudder) in the group picture as well.

JOHN

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 Post subject: Greece
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 1999 9:58 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 148
Location: Boca Raton, FL
"AH! You are one of the few who do not scratch their heads when I make reference to the Big Blue Book of Shohei."

OK, JD, if I keep scratching my head, what few hairs are left won't be! Are you referring to Alan Dollar's Big Blue (Purple) Book or something else?

Scratchly yours,

Moe Mensale


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 Post subject: Greece
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 1999 12:28 am 
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Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Moe

No, he is referring to the official Shohei Ryu book of Uechi ryu - in Japanese. It is a bit of a rehash of the material that was in Master Uechi's kihon, but this book won't break your foot if you drop it. It also is somewhat of a "we have arrived" statement upon the formation of that organization. I picked up a copy a year or two ago from Steve Banchick. He must have ordered a box of them and was trying to sell them to whomever was interested.

Books like these are useful if you are a collector or if you know a little Japanese and can learn postures from pictures. I am a bit of a book junkie, and still remember a bit from my Japanese laguage training. From a practical standpoint, Alan Dollar's "purple" book is your best bet to getting something out of the "original" book by Uechi Kanei (et al), but in the familiar language of English. I have all of the above books, and Alan's got everything most people need from the original work - but in English.

In Alan's book, you also get to learn a bit about the Shinjo family, and get lots of pictures of the author. In the Shohei book, you get pictures of all their various good guys.

Bill


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 Post subject: Greece
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 1999 5:51 am 
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Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
I dragged my Big Blue Book (tm) out last night to check on my off-the-cuff comments. Looks like I need to make an addendum.

While it is true that much of this official Shohei/Okikukai book is in Japanese, the kata descriptions have some English translation on those respective pages (complete with pictures). This makes the book much more useful than Master Uechi's (et al) kihon, which is strictly in Japanese. However the rest of the book still begs for some of Alan Dollar's good translation work in his own tome of the system. There's a lot of shared material in the three books that Alan has done a very reasonable job translating.

Also....there's a little bit of unique material in the Shohei/Okikukai book. After the "divorce", the Shohei people came up with their own yakusoku (prearranged) kumite that they have callled....Yakusoku kumite. If you are an official Shohei practitioner, it's likely that you will want to have the book as a reference for that exercise.

But the real surprise was when I saw this other form as an "Official (tm) OKK kata". It was....the first (instructional) form of Goju ryu. I tell you, it makes me chuckle a little. I'll explain.

I trained up to nidan in Shorei Kai Goju ryu (Okinawan, the Toguchi branch off of Miyagi Chojun). Now we all know that there are similarities. However I've always thought that there was a bit of animosity on the islands between the Goju and Uechi folks. Almost too close in style for comfort? Maybe. Anyhow I taught for 14 years at UVa where most students left after 4 years of practice (7 years if I could get them into grad, law, or med school). I knew that they would move and possibly have to continue karate with another instructor. So my INTRODUCTORY karate class taught a kicking form I choreographed (in case they had to dumb down to TKD) and...Fukyu kata dai ni. The latter was taught to teach them "generic karate." When I put the latter kata in this beginners' class, you never heard such protests among my black belts. What was this Goju s***? What authority did I have to include it in a Uechi cirriculum? I can remeber one time having a high ranking master who visited me (and will remain unnamed) lecturing me on getting so broad in my instruction. Next thing you know, this same master went off to the OKK, and....Fukyu kata is an Official OKK form (tm). Priceless!

Makes me want to call the guy back and ask him if I am a visionary. NOT!

Anyhow, what's the latest list of "Official" kata these days for Shohei/OKK? I know there has been controversy (some added, some dropped, one to be choreographed). Just curious how that all settled out. No jabs or disrepect intended - just curious.

Bill


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 Post subject: Greece
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 1999 7:42 pm 
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Posts: 2437
Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
Bill and Moe et al:

We practice "Yakusoku" Kumite. I personally, still like to practice Kyu and Dan and 1-whatever, (especially 1 and three).

Yakusoku trade a bit of off Dan; the number nine sequence in Yakusoku being similar to number four in Dan. Number three in Yakusoku is very similar to number three, I think, in Kyu. Number seven ens as does numbxcept, perhaps, that Yakusoku "always" ends with a "clean" counter as does
Kyu, which makes it very "likable".

As for the forms, subject to other input, nobody has required anyone yet to my knowledge to teach any of the "Fukyu Gata" forms "sanctioned" in the Kyuhan (Kyuhon?).

They are not requird for promotion. Therefore to prospective Dan candidates they may as well not exist. I suppose they could be considered electives for an instructor seeking more material.

Weapons forms were to be selected as "electives", but no list came back from OKK as to which or what they might prefer. Therefore I work on Shushi No Kon Sho, (Mr. Takamiyagi did it at one camp and Tokumine No Kun (listed in Alan Dollar's book as a "traditional" Kobudo form and Tsuken Chita Hakku Sai. Neither these of any others are required for promotion yet.

Weapons forms are required in Isshin Ryu, for example, which borrowed (please correct me if I am wrong) and number of Goju Shorin kata plus "Sunsu" compiled by Master Shimabaku. Kusanku Sai is an example of one of their weapons forms adapted directly from one of their empty hand forms.

Also, there has been talk of a new form that might be required for 5th or 6th Dan. This, I assume, might be compiled by the OKK board members. Again, for purposes of the potential Shodan candidate, it might as well not exist. In fact for Godan candidates it doesn't exist yet. It is last on my worry list.

Personally, I don't have an objection to all this as long as no one seriously changes the eight kata passed to us that both sides of the thread practice.

I am not trying to be an "apologist", just passing on info.

The Kenyukai has their own Kumite as well.

Allen books are very good and I refer to them often. Allan Dollar's book is a must as well.

JOHN T.

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 Post subject: Greece
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 1999 7:53 pm 
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Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
John T

Thanks for the information. I do not believe there is anything "wrong" with incorporating new material. In my dojos we have our own home-grown bunkai and forms. And I also teach kobudo and traditional forms from other systems whenever there is interest. This type of cross training strengthens a system. Perhaps the real debate is whether or not to be so specific in WHAT is to be done for an individual dojo's or student's exploration outside the core. Would the higher powers appreciate diversity from school to school, student to student? Would they understand the value of it?

Thanks so much for the clarifications.

Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill Glasheen (edited 03-23-99).]


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 Post subject: Greece
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 1999 11:41 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 2437
Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
Bill:

As A prctical matter everthing is pretty much the same, saving some interpretational difference. Testing wise one is looking at OKK's Yakusoku instead of Dan and, above Sandan, Senseiryu Buncai instead of Seisan Buncai.

I was the Guinea pig at my Yondan test for the latter and Bob Gremo and were the first people to do Sans. Bukai and Yakusoku as part of a promotional. At that time you were allowed to Dan and Seisan Bunkai if you wished.

The latter option is no longer available.

Thanks for allowing me to help.

JOHN T.

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