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 Post subject: Greece
PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 1999 5:35 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 148
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Bill,

Thanks for the BIG BLUE explanation. I have Alan Dollar's Big Purple book and it is indeed a worthy companion for anyone's bookcase.

Prior to leaving the OKK for SOKE, I learned their new yakusoku kumite. It has ten sequences and is very different from the yakusoku kumites that we would normally practice.

I have it written down somewhere. I'll go dig it up and possibly post it as a new thread if there is any interest.

I still practice it on occassion because it opens up some new twists on what we regularly do.

Moe Mensale


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 Post subject: Greece
PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 1999 4:19 pm 
JD wrote:

I have yet to see it officially done at a test. A lot have been "grandfathered" with Seisan bunkai. I do not mind the addition. Certainly, some can quibble (Bill!) about the applications. Why not make prospective seniors devise their own?

Just a thought.

When I tested for nidan in a Shotokan variant, part of our test was to devise our own bunkai. personally, for whatever it is worth, (which may be very little, I'll admit), pre-determined bunkai are very good teaching techniques for learning how to interpret kata, but by dan level, (and I'm being politic, here, since I actually think that people should be making up their own bunkai by the time they reach green belt), I think if you're tied to the "official" bunkai, you're robbing yourself of the value of your training.

I know GEM has talked about the reason for the official bunkai as giving the testing boards some standardization for the purposes of testing, but, and I mean this with no disrespect--that's bureaucracy, not karate. So, with that in mind, who really cares what different people do as their "official" bunkai? What difference does it make outside of a test?




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maurice richard libby
toronto/moose jaw


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 Post subject: Greece
PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 1999 7:17 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 17040
Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
John

I would love to have you send an e-mail version of the "Yakusoku" yakusoku kumite. Hopefully it's just a matter of sending something aready done. If not, just tell me how the latest version is different from the Big Blue Book of Shohei.

Isn't that typical - come out with a book version of a kumite and then change it so that the book is irrelevant. Makes you see the value of a software text.

Now if they can only give this routine a real name.... It's like the names "A Programing Language" (APL), or "Boy". How original!

glasheen@uechi-ryu.com

[This message has been edited by Bill Glasheen (edited 03-24-99).]


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 Post subject: Greece
PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 1999 9:39 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 2422
Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
Bill Sensei:

I misspoke. The Bankai, if I recall correctly, is a little diferent than in "Big Blue", but not greatly. The applications are the same, I believe. I think "Yakusoku" differs slightly in the way they reset between points for reasons of formality (?), but I don't think it is otherwise very different.

Sensei Jack was just "there" for 3 weeks so there is a pretty good chance that I would have heard about any changes. The final versions, as far as I know, was set at or about the time of the 1994 "Senior's" workout and I have not heard of any changes since.

The "1990" camp showed Master Yonamine doing "a" Sanseiryu Bunkai which is very slightly different than that vast sersion I know of.

In Seisan Bunkai, as I know you are very well aware, you "show" "demonstrate" and "show" again. I assume for reasons of Brevity and perhaps out of mercy for the students and testing Boards, the second "showing" in Sanseirui Bunkai is deleted except in one instance (where you sort of have to reset to make the application work right.

Do I have your E Mail. My should show as part of my "signature", if not Sensei GEM has it, and I will type the "Yakusoku" over and send it as soon as I get yout E-mail.

I am not sure the differences in "Big Blue" and what is done around here right now amount to much. As you noted some "basic" applications of Sanseiryu exist, and that's the route that was taken.

JOHN T

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 Post subject: Greece
PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 1999 9:42 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 2422
Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
Bill sensei:

Oops.

There's your E-mail on your last post.


Will try and get it out to you shortly.

JOHN T

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 Post subject: Greece
PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 1999 5:05 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 1897
Location: N. Andover, Ma. USA
The only thing IMHO that should remain static is the Kata. Interpetation for higher ranks should be something that fits them that they would actually be able to use in a real situation. The instructors position is to break down Kata on an ever changing "Dynamic" basis to allow each student to their own. This increases spontaneity, creativity and more depth to the Kata. Set drills are great for timing, distancing, exercise, fear/adrenaline control, body conditioning, etc. but for self defensive purpose the spontaneity and flow from motion to motion is the key.

Testing should be done (again IMHO) on Kata
and spontaneous situations.


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Evan Pantazi
http://www.erols.com/kyusho


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 Post subject: Greece
PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 1999 5:17 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 2422
Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
Bill Sensei,Moe-San, Mauirce-San, J.D. San:

I do not know what kata the Okinawan school systems might be trying to put into their curriculum. I can try and find out.

Making uo one's own Bunkai is a heck of a good idea and believe me when I tell you that there are a lot of "Chin Na" in the Uechi forms as well as Kyusho applications.
The point was made on Sensei Pantazi's forum that the forms are like textbooks in this respect.

OKK's Yakusoku and Sanseiri Bunkai are absolutely required on all Dan tests. Of course the Bunkai only applies to Yondan and above. It has been the habit to use 1-5 in place of Kyu and then add the other points later.

7 and 9 can get confused with each other in that they are somewhat similar. The Takedown at the end is an "outside minor reap" (I'm sorry, I have momentarily forgotten the Judo term) and might be slightly less likely to endanger the person trying to apply it than the "leg dive" at the end of Dan. This appears to be from Jiu Jitsu roots (Nikose Nikae-Jiu Jitsu Complete) Mike Murphy would know. Of course the aforementioned technique then reappears in Sanseirui Bankai.

Just opinions. I am not an all knowing scholar. Enlightenment accepted without cavil.

There are at least 5 different ways I have seen Kanshiwa Bunkai done. I'm sure that everyone can say that and the differences are not substantial.

I haven't typed Yakusoku onto an E Mailable format, but I will if asked. The Bunkai is not done precisely as shown in "Big Blue" and I have already offered to E mail it on request.

"Big Blue" has quite a bit of English. MAster Nakahodo shows Sanchin and Master Takamiyagi shows Sensei Rui.

If you can get it, its not a bad idea.

Again, I'm not being an apologist, just sharing.

John T.



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