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 Post subject: Steve Morris
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 1999 2:45 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 16, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 84
Location: Albuquerque NM USA
The site seems average enough in terms of visuals. The guy writes pretty well...piqued my curiosity. but without seeing what he does, who knows?

MFH


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 Post subject: Steve Morris
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 1999 3:06 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 1897
Location: N. Andover, Ma. USA
I have put in a comunique with the email he has at the bottom of one of the pages. Canna Sensei have you worked with this man and if so does he have something?



------------------
Evan Pantazi
http://www.erols.com/kyusho


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 Post subject: Steve Morris
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 1999 3:57 pm 
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Evan-san,

I have not worked with Mr Morris and I don't know him ! I do like some of his points on reality and his jabs at a certain and real oriental prejudice against Westerners/ Americans ! He got the respect by "beating the gi pants' off" some of the most vitriolic traditionalists ! The rest of his points are , of course, open for discussion !

Regards ,

------------------
Van Canna


[This message has been edited by Van Canna (edited 04-22-99).]

[This message has been edited by Van Canna (edited 04-22-99).]


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 Post subject: Steve Morris
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 1999 6:24 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 24, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 311
Location: Washington DC area, USA
Part of the requirements for membership is that you must, and I quote:

"Discontinue training under any other instructor. As long as you continue to practice ineffective and outmoded methods, you will prevent yourself from making the rapid progression you would otherwise achieve by Steve Morris' method. This includes ceasing attendance and promotion of outside seminars and courses. Instructional videos and written material will be made available to members for use only within the group, and not to be distributed outside the organization. Violation of this policy will result in the revocation of all membership privileges."

What the heck is this guy trying to sell us, Borg-Jitsu???? He has GOT to be kidding. There is no way in the world I would give up training with my Sabunims for some smuck dude over in England, who I don't know. Now if I meet him later in life and he da man, then hey, I'll eat crow. But I ain't flying off the handle over some stuff on the net.

I'll be back with more.

Cecil

This guy is nothing but material. Rest assured he will be parodied on my website, him and others, like that Dragon Kempo dude I ordered information from. Good lord, their as bad as the people they criticize. I've learned a lot and had my mind expanded just by visiting this Uechi Website!




------------------
Email: <A HREF="mailto:creativebrother@yahoo.com">creativebrother@yahoo.com</A>
Web Page: http://creativebrother.freehosting.net


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 Post subject: Steve Morris
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 1999 8:08 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 17114
Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
MFH

You wrote <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
Quote:
The guy writes pretty well...
I respectfully disagree.

For those who are coming in new on this, the site in question is the following: www.toudi-kempo.co.uk . Peruse it for a bit. Steve Morris intends to get your attention, and he will do that one way or another by the time you have read enough.

I personally found the writing to be incredibly tedious. As an example, take a look at this: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
Quote:
Having over the last year conducted a number of seminars across the country through which I sought to introduce a radical alternative way of practicing and perceiving karate and at which with every new venue my depreciation of karate, its dead traditions, empty method and masters of deceit grew proportionally with each and every visit, it became clear to me that despite being applauded for my radical departure from current Okinawan and Japanese Karate and Kobujutsu practices by those seniors who attended these seminars-who openly declared that my power, skills and rationale of my method were far superior to those of their Okinawan and Japanese masters and that they had learnt more in the first twenty minutes under my instruction than they had under their respective masters in the last twenty or thirty years-none it seems was willing (as it first appeared) to commit themselves to my philosophy of natural movement response as they had been so willing to commit themselves to the perfection of those grotesque unnatural movement patterns of response that characterize modern Karate-do and Kobudo; or commit themselves to my guidance as they had so willingly and blindly committed themselves to the masters of Okinawa and Japan.
Folks this is one sentence. Arrrrggghhhh! I know it is bad form on this forum to critique grammer and spelling. But this is his Prepared statement, the opening line of his dialogue to the public. The poor fellow is badly in need of an editor. The content doesn't bother me anywhere near as much as the painful way he expresses himself.

Is this relevant? Perhaps it is. After consulting with a British fellow that Morris quotes on his page and I know pretty well, I come to find out that Steve is basically a nice guy who comes across very differently in the written form than he actually is in real life. And he doesn't seem to care. Whether you like it or not, know it or not, the medium very much can become a major part of the message.

VAN

I am in agreement with you that there are elements of what Mr. Morris says that are right on. The prejudices that he observed in the east are indeed there. The limits of understanding of kata and fighting from masters who should know better is well known. The gap between martial theory and a life-and-death fight can be a giant chasm, especially for those who do not understand their system. Knowing you, I know exactly why portions of his page appeal to you.

Taking the leap from all his blastings of the world (and assuming that "they" are all fools and don't know real bushido) to revoking all but Steve Morris as an instructor is...a big leap of faith. He didn't sell me. In this vein, I am in complete agreement with Cecil. What's the difference between Steve Morris and any two-bit cult leader? Whenever I see these kinds of demands, it only makes me question the intentions and emotional status of the person who would make them. I could be completely wrong, but I don't care. Why would anyone worth seeing need to make those demands?

TO ALL

One of my favorite quotes is from one of Lewis Carroll's "Alice" books. The following is a conversation between Alice and the Cheshire cat.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>"Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?"
"That depends a good deal on where you want to get to," said the Cat.
"I don't much care where--"said Alice.
"Then it doesn't matter which way you go," said the Cat.
"--so long as I get SOMEWHERE," Alice added as an explanation.
"Oh, you're sure to do that," said the Cat, "if you only walk long enough."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Sometimes when I view writings of people like Steve Morris and Bruce Lee, this passage comes to mind. For most who go into martial arts and choose a dojo, they are like Alice. Most any place they end up would be just fine, as long as they get SOMEWHERE. To folks like Van and myself, we probably have a good idea where we want to go. And Van and I very well may end up choosing different paths. Good! For someone like Steve Morris or Bruce Lee, one wonders if perhaps the wrong path was chosen, like the typical male who refuses to stop and ask for directions and ends up getting "lost". And in doing so, perhaps one is quick to curse at the destination and/or the map (like a typical male) rather than accepting that maybe (God forbid) you f***ed up.

In the end though, I have to accept my friend's endorsement of the guy and assume he'd be a great person to work with. But I certainly would never accept his written terms of engagement. I'd rather remain unenlightened.

That's OK....I already have too much to do and learn between here and my final destination. I'm only a mere mortal.

-- Bill


[This message has been edited by Bill Glasheen (edited 04-23-99).]


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 Post subject: Steve Morris
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 1999 5:53 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 24, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 311
Location: Washington DC area, USA
Perhaps I'm just not getting it. From what I've read so far, he's tired of the traditional rhetoric; he's tired of sharlatans; he thinks that the traditional bushido methods are stale; he thinks there are some racists in Japan and in the martial arts world.

So, what's his point? Does he want us to just chuck out the in-side out block or the crescent kick? I guess HE has the answer, right? Yeah, okay, and Judo, Boxing, Western Wrestling, and Taekwondo are just sport and can never be applied to the street. Despite the fact that I've seen people flipped, two-pieced by a good jab-reverse, wrestled to the ground, and kicked in the chest or solar plexus until they were bed-ridden the next day.

I don't know the guy, I'm sure he's been at this stuff a heck of a lot longer than I have, but I get the feeling he's may try to have THE answer. I'm still trying to figure out what he thinks THE QUESTION is!

------------------
Email: <A HREF="mailto:creativebrother@yahoo.com">creativebrother@yahoo.com</A>
Web Page: http://creativebrother.freehosting.net


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 Post subject: Steve Morris
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 1999 1:42 pm 
I agree with JD & Bill ... the writing is tedious as Morris tries to overwhelm the reader with his rhetoric. What exactly are his intentions?

And as Cecil pointed out, anyone who says ... denounce all others and follow me because I have the way ... smacks of a cult-like organization ... no matter how good his skills are.

And as for learning in 20 minutes what takes 20 years... sounds like a "get rich quick" scheme.

Masters and teachers can guide us, help catalyze our ideas, mirror our strengths and weakness ... but in the end it's the inner teacher the student must hear.

Jackie ...


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 Post subject: Steve Morris
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 1999 3:32 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 157
Location: Evansville, IN, USA
As pointed out by others the "follow me and no other", "learnt more in 20 minutes then 20 years" has the stench of "I am the one and only possessor of THE WAY (tm)" mentality. I have a strong dislike for this mentality. Even if he were dead on right, so what? Kyokushin has made a profound difference in my life. No matter where I am or what am I doing, I am going my life in the Kyokushin way, and it is a successful life by my own measuring stick. So, if he to tell me that this way is wrong? If Mr. Morris has found a way that is good for him, and good for the people he teaches, great ... but get off the pedestal.

Second,

"As there would be very little point in passing on that master key to anyone other than those who are desperate enough to
remove those shackles of restraint imposed by the masters of Okinawa and Japan and their parodies in the West, in order to be
able to finally open that inner door to self discovery through which, should they decide to enter, they might eventually become
the masters of their own destinies rather than the blind, obedient slaves in the fulfilling of another's." - Steve Morris

If his intent was truly as a boon to the martial arts he would offer his "master key" as free and public knowledge and let those who are smart enough free themselves. But know, the rest of us with all of our years of experience couldn't possibly fathom or accept his teachings with, I assume, direct consultation with him. I feel that this is the same as the mystic high-and-mighty chi masters saying "Chi is all powerful, and you are doing everything wrong, but I cannot tell you what you are doing wrong because you wouldn't understand". My reply "Try me." Maybe I will listen and go "Hmmm ... I have no idea what your talking about ... teach me more" or I'll say "Ahhh ... thank you for teaching me, I understand know". But to presuppose that I just won't get it ... I guess I'll stay a slave then.

I was talking with one of my former instructors last night. I won't get into the whole conversation since it is somewhat political in nature but he said "Karate is a hard life. We all get frustrated sometimes with all the stuff that goes in martial arts". I get the impression that maybe Mr. Morris is tired of the garbage in the martial community, and I agree wholeheartedly ... me too! If this is his approach to fixing it, well, he won't have my support with out more hard stuff from him.

Osu!
Jason

P.s. - I find it amusing that he was kicked out of Kyokushin for excessive contact. If you read his account of his story there is little doubt that the contact he delivered was excessive. I mean "duh"! He hit a guy in the face with his fist (illegal in most Kyokushin tournaments and often not allowed in class) and he bleed. Then later he kicked a guy and knocked him out causing internal injuries ... but je doesn't think my contact was excessive. Okay. I try to read his stuff and not think of him as a complete ego maniac but it is real hard when there are things like "it soon became obvious that I was the only one there who knew what he was doing". If his intentions are pure (and I am not convinced they are) then his methods need a lot of work.


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 Post subject: Steve Morris
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 1999 3:54 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 17114
Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
J.D.

Thanks for the huge editorial hint.

Damned spell check.....

Bill


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 Post subject: Steve Morris
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 1999 4:36 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 03, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 48
Location: Kranj, Slovenia
In reference to Mr.Steve Morris discussion...

With all due respect to previous posts...

While Mr.Morris is playing the "violin",
so far there is nothing but squeaky barking
on this forum about the composition of words or wondering where the hell this guy comes from (my goodness??....dude..is this guy having something to offer..)

P.S.
I am continuing to be amused and appalled by
the ignorance you display on getting the message right.
Fortunately at least Mr.Mattson in Whats New
shows he might have more hint about WHO Mr.Morris IS.

Let's be happy and continue to play in our karate kindergarten but do not mess up about
somebody who is light years ahead..

Best regards to all

igor prasnikar


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 Post subject: Steve Morris
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 1999 7:22 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 17114
Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
I thought it might be useful to make an additional comment.

"We" (a group of us who discovered Mr. Morris' page several weeks ago) actually started viewing his page with interest. One person in particular (where ARE you??) brought several passages to light that he felt demonstrated the breadth of understanding of those who study sanchin and sanchin-based systems. This gentlman felt it was an answer to some who might think that martial artists of this type don't understand certain concepts like ground path and the flow of force and other relevant issues in energy generation and transmission.

Personally I was immediately "connected" when I first opened his page. The characters "to de" (China hand) appear prominently on the front, and in other places in this website. Those same characters - a copy of such painted by Ryuko Tomoyose - appear prominently (two foot by one foot) in one of my Richmond dojos. They have meaning for those who look beyond what their Okinawan masters taught them, for those who dig ceaselessly for more than what they were exposed to. Yes, I believe Mr. Morris and I have walked a few of the same paths - even if I did tread a little more gently through the night.

A considerable amount of time was spent going over these pages in our private discussions. While there was much to consider and - yes - even enjoy, it was this other "stuff" that disappointed us. The reaction was not Who is this jerk?, but rather Oh what a shame! Why did he do that??

The purpose of this thread - and of this page - is to debate topics for the enlightement of all. None of us who frequent these pages claim to have all the answers (but you can still send $99.95 to....). And none of us are about trashing the reputations of others. But then this gentleman and his friends can't complain when he is questioned. After all, who did throw the first stone?

It is my sincere wish and goal that we all can walk away better and smarter with each and every engagement with the martial community. I have never stopped learning and hopefully never will. I believe if all (including the individual in question) can focus on issues and stay away from personalities and reptuations, then the public will be better served.

-- Bill


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 Post subject: Steve Morris
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 1999 8:08 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 157
Location: Evansville, IN, USA
I do admit that my messages have focused on the "shocking" part of his site, which perhaps is a tad bit unfair ... but well, if you post in public I guess you have to be ready for that.

The technical portions of his website are quite nice, although I think almost all of the web site could really use a re-write (but hey I am not much of a writer either!).

And know a story... I was pondering this little discussion over lunch and it got me thinking about something that happened to me a little while ago:

Due to a move I have been forced to train outside of a official Kyokushin dojo (which those who are truly knowledgeable of the martial arts knows that, that doesn't mean I still don't practice Kyokushin). I like to look on the bright side and consider this a good chance to cross train. So, while checking out the various dojos and went to a Shotokhan dojo. The instructor told me I could try out a few classes, and frankly I wasn't too impressed with the class as a whole. So, when the free classes were over I told the instructor that I didn't know if this class was for me, and that I would be checking out other schools. Later that week I sent him a letter saying that I appreciated his allowing me to train there for a week, and I appreciated his instruction but that I wanted a more combative school with more focus on kumite, which he really didn't offer. We are still on speaking terms and I talk to him whenever we meet about martial arts. Nice little story no?

Well, imagine an alternate universe. And in this universe I send a letter to the local newspaper telling everybody he isn't teaching good and true martial arts. That his students and in fact all the students in the area should not participate in his seminars, quit his school and join mine (assuming I owned one). What do you think people (martial artists in particular) would think of me? Even if I were right, and I was head and shoulders superior to him in every way, what would that say about me? Is this similar to the methodology Mr. Morris has choosen? I think so. I really wish I knew more about what his ideology is about ... it is a shame those details are hidden.

Osu!
Jason


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 Post subject: Steve Morris
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 1999 5:09 am 
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Posts: 157
Location: Evansville, IN, USA
The rather obvious question is what does Mr. Morris have to offer? So far his offering is I know something you don't know but I won't tell you publically because "there would be no point". Why is he afraid to discuss his enlightening way publically? Is he afraid it will come under ridicule from his detracters? According to his own word, he could care less about what his detracters have to say because he knows that those who do not like will always find some reason not to like him (on this he is definitely right). Mr. Morris has tried a pretty hard sell ... and not an uncommon one. It is not like the "put myself on a pedestal" is a new marketing ploy! Heck, nearly every company promoting anything will say "I am #1", but does that make them right? So, he believes that he is the possessor of the truth. That he has this new way that is far superior. Lets hear it, openly and without the boasts. I for one don't need the hype and ego to hear what he has to say, but I wonder if maybe once the hype and ego goes away if there really is anything left? I suspect that Mr. Morris may be a very good martial artist; however, I doubt that his enlightenment is anything that new or spectacular. It may be uncommon to find a martial artist who is devoted to the arts as he may or may not be, and if he truly is (and I do get the inkling that he is) I salute and commend him. That is great, but he is not the sole possessor of this! There is a lot of **** in the martial arts, no doubt, and if Mr. Morris is one of us who believe in getting quality back in to it then great; however, read my post above "If his intentions are pure then his *methods* need some work". His methods are poor because they seek to insult and alienate! This in conjunction with the obvious ego stroking, in my view which is a valid as anybody elses, shows a poor martial spirit.

I would be very interested in Mr. Morris providing more with regards to details of his revelation. Until they his words are purely empty boasts.

Osu!
Jason

P.s. - Igor, you clearly have not read all the posts on this board. For one, Van showed some support to parts (a limited part albeit) to Mr. Morris text. Others have put up very legitimate concerns about his "offering". Mr. Morris provides very little to bite into, and asks essentially for a leap of faith. He has not earned it. What more is there to discuss based on what he is saying? What would you expect this forum to have? What would you expect or liket to see? Would you expect people to say "Sounds great, I am quitting my school now"? Based on what? Do not take this as a "flame" because that is not my intent (the internet medium does not convey the sincerity of my question to you). If you have a reason why you think the discussion here should be different than what it is, please share it. If you have actual information to share, and not the jab you have posted, please share that too.


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 Post subject: Steve Morris
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 1999 5:14 am 
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Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Igor

Do I have to pee on the flower bed of your buddy to hear from you? Where have you been, dude? I do believe that it was about nineteen years ago that you took the trip from Yugoslavia to Finkelstein's school in New York, and then came down to Charlottesville with Kenny Elter to stay with me. Hey, YOU are the one that works for an airline! Come visit again some time.

I should be in Germany with Bruce Hirabayashi around August. Can we meet? Think about it.

Igor the issue is not whether Mr. Morris is a good martial arts practitioner. I have my sources who know him or have talked with him (including Mr. Mattson who I do know a little bit). We all agree that he's a good guy and a fine martial artist.

The issue is the content of his page. Read it for yourself. It's full of trash talk about masters and styles and the people he's worked with. He's very critical about folks blindly following their masters and their ways. To some who have great instructors that they respect (and I presume they may speak for them), this is tantamount to talking about someone's mother. So what if Mr. Morris had a bad time with others. I do believe that his rhetoric on his home page is the whining and wailing.

And then he comes full circle to ask that you join his group and stop contact with all other masters and stop going to others' seminars. And he is offended that others don't see the light and follow him.

I'm sure that Mr. Morris is a great guy and a fine karateka. If he has your endorsement (I presume since you have posted that you have worked with him) then he must be. But why is all the rhetoric necessary? And why should you or he or anyone else be surprised when someone is offended? I suspect that he is not surprised by the reaction that he gets.

It's unfortunate that he was not able to see what he wanted in others. I'm glad that he has seen the light within. If I'm lucky, maybe one day I'll bump into him or someone with similar skills and I'll learn something.

But there's quite a bit on his page that is certainly worth debate. His discussion of sanchin breathing is a good start.

www.toudi-kempo.co.uk/funa.htm

It makes me wonder who his teacher was (and his understanding of anatomy) when he talks about the problem with sanchin breathing. What he describes is certainly not was I was taught. I'm sad for him if he was misled. I certainly wasn't. I'd be happy to share my own views:

www.uechi-ryu.com/breathng.htm

So....let's stop the whining and get on to specifics. Perhaps you, sir, can share information with us that would be enlightening. We'd all be interested in less heat and more light.

And if Mr. Morris himself is willing to join in, he'd be welcome.

My very best to you, Igor. I have fond memories of times past.

-- Bill


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 Post subject: Steve Morris
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 1999 8:05 pm 
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Posts: 1089
Bill Sensei,

I briefly read contents of Sensei Morris' web site last night and would like to add the following.

It's interesting to me how we (O.K. me, and perhaps others) tend to suspend critical judgement when digesting the written productions of persons of real or imagined importance in the arts. Truely, if the contents of this web site were anything but martial arts I would not have continued reading for all the reasons previously mentioned.

I couldn't agree more with the spirit of many of his complaints about the commercialization and dilution of the Okinawan arts. Does this mean that it's necessary to throw the baby out with the bath water? Furthermore, it seemed that Sensei Morris valued his study of Chinese martial art and did not appear (perhaps I missed it?) to denigrate that camp. Why then is the entire tradition of Chinese martial art somehow relegated to the dust bin along the way?

On reading the conditions of tuition with Sensei Morris, my reaction was no different than anyone else. In how many ways have we been told that there are no secrets. There is unrelenting hard work, occasional flashes of intuitive connection, and the gift of brothers and sisters to walk the path together, but there are no secrets. I shudder to think of the disrespect to warriors of every nationality whose whose life's work has been discounted to nothingness in such a bold stroke.

And then there is the blood. It's superficial to select a teacher primarily on the basis of how many people they have trashed. When a teacher emphasises that aspect of their qualities it makes you wonder what other qualities they have. Jason has already addressed the issue of how some of the beatings were administered. Maybe that's the secret, do things that others don't expect. If so, there is no monopoly on that strategy.

As a final question, why is it necessary for Sensei Morris to present his work/himself in a manner in which those who know him apparently see as incongruous with the "real" Steve Morris? This apparent schizm between the person and the product may be of little importance in another venue, but in karate we seek to become one with our art and it is important. It's absence occasions alarm bells.

------------------
Good training,
David


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