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 Post subject: But is it effective?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 1999 11:29 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 1897
Location: N. Andover, Ma. USA
So much clamour about the worth of Karate training in a real situation...will it be effective in a real situation? A simple question and I leave it to you...are you better able to handle yourself more now or before your training?

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Evan Pantazi
http://www.erols.com/kyusho


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 Post subject: But is it effective?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 1999 2:48 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 17032
Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Evan

This is on the surface an almost simplistic question. Not really.

Back when I taught at UVa and would get 50 or more people signing up per semester, I would start off with "the talk." One of the first things I would tell people is that if they were here to learn to defend themselves, that perhaps they should just consider buying a gun. I told them it would be easier to get beat up than to do what it took to learn enough martial arts to be effective.

And I meant it.

I always get a little annoyed with the doom-and-gloom crowd. With the proliferation of hand guns in this city, it makes me laugh when people talk about outdated training methods or learning the true meaning of jutsu or the warrior way. The great equalizer changes all that. Adolescents can rampage through buildings on killing sprees, and few can do anything about it unless they are armed themselves. You may be able to block punches, but not bullets.

The only guarantees I make to people is that if they spend time with me, that I will make them more effective tomorrow than they are today. To me it's not just the discovery and development of abilities, it's also the realization of limitations. It's just as much about perspective as anything else. And I think that is so important. More knowledge and a false sense of confidence have negative net worth in my book.

--Bill


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 Post subject: But is it effective?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 1999 2:50 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
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Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
One final note...

I know this is a cliche, but it has great meaning to me. In martial arts its not the having, its the getting. If it isn't meaningful enough to practice the martial arts, then it isn't worth learning.


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 Post subject: But is it effective?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 1999 2:51 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 16, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 667
The answer is not so simple. It comes down to what do each of us take away from the training?

1) physical conditioning- I feel I'm way ahead of the game by working out regularly and conditioning the body. This should hold true for most serious practitioners.

2) Mental conditioning - this has been the topic of many a post here and it breaks down into several elements, some of which are: awareness of a threat, emotional intelligence, and ability and presense of mind to react when threatened. I'll address the first. I've played around with decision trees as used in game theory on the awareness concept. If I look at all the variables involved in a defensive situation, signs of danger, awareness, training, weapons Above all, awareness is THE most important defense tool. If you are aware, you should see the signs. Without this, your physical ability or weapons are useless. Using awareness as a tool should help avoid danger. If you miss the signs and danger comes, you then depend on your "Wits, Will, and Weapons."

Emotional intelligence deals with controlling your emotions when threatened, this take practice to keep the adrelaline under wraps. I've learned about this outside of the dojo. Does anyone address this issue in their classes?

The second part is honestly difficult for me to answer. I'd like to believe in myself and I do here safely behind my desk. But after reading this forum for a while, who knows?

Good post Evan, should get a lot of opinions!

Kevin


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 Post subject: But is it effective?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 1999 4:20 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 2422
Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
To all:

"God created man, but Sam Colt made them equal."

Source unknown.

It is not going to get simpler to buy guns to protect oneself, it's gonna get harder.

Does this matter? No.

It's easy to stand behind the principles in the Second Amendment as it was easy to stand behind "don't let Vietnam fall to Communism" and easy to say "no ethnic cleansing in Kossovo"; that is, until the body bags start to fill up.

I am sorry if this is a rather brutish post.

That's the hard news.

On the softer side we know that Kata and form condition the body and the mind in a positive fashion. Or, perhaps I should say, I opine that this is the case.

That's the easy message that many never get.

JOHNT

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 Post subject: But is it effective?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 1999 4:12 pm 
It depends on what you mean by a real situation. If it involoves a gunfight-no. But if it is a situation without a weapon-say in a parking lot against an unarmed bozo thats just trying to harass you, yes it would be effective. Also in question are the actual worthfullness of particular styles of martial arts. The UFC and other no holds barred fighting have recently caused most traditional styles to rethink there whole training philosophy from one that "might work" to actually discovering what will and wont work in a real fight.


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 Post subject: But is it effective?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 1999 7:19 pm 
Anyone ever think about entering a luck parameter into the street-fight or real-fight equation?

or how 'bout if you don't see the first one coming?

And the list goes on and on. It really does.

There are too many variables. The bigger, stronger, faster, faster talker, luckier you are the better your chances.

I s'ppose, Evan, if you fight all the time then you are good at it. If you don't fight much or not at all, then who knows. and if you don't want to fight and/or can avoid them, then it doesn't make a difference anyway. (you meaning not you personally)

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Allen - uechi@ici.net - http://www.uechi-ryu.org


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 Post subject: But is it effective?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 1999 11:44 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 2422
Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
Allen Sensei:

Once Napoleon was approached by a group of his generals seeking to have one of their number appointed to the level of Marshal (if I have quoted this before I am sorry) of the Armies of France.

They went on and on about his credentials:

Napoleon finally said: "I don't care to know if he's good----is he LUCKY?

For sure luck!!!!

JOHN



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 Post subject: But is it effective?
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 1999 8:05 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 05, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 2
Location: Costa Mesa, CA USA
I personally think some systems work better then others, you have to judge for yourself what works best for you. Most schools offer free classes in there system, shop around and ask alot of questions. I think that is one of the key elements, as for relying on luck, don't.-ED


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 Post subject: But is it effective?
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 1999 10:25 pm 
Edwin,

Some systems may train better fighting techniques than others and different dojo within a given system may focus more of 'fighting,' but it is still up to the individual.

There seems to a subculture of students who excel on their own in things obvious inspite of learning under the guidance of ho-hum teachers. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a similar mapping, and overlapping, of another subculture who would also do fairly well if the need arose to defend themselves.

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Allen - uechi@ici.net - http://www.uechi-ryu.org


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