To the Learned Men and Women of Science and Medicine Who so Graciously Share of Their Knowledge with the Unwashed Masses:
It's getting a little warm here in Northern California (except for "The City", where you need a coat). When I was a lad in high school, the coaches were very keen on handing out salt tablets as we came in from exercise. I have read articles, I believe in Runner's World, suggesting that even in hot weather it is unnecessary to up one's salt intake. On this subject, as with many others, I am confused. Is there any need to increase one's salt intake if engaging in warm weather exercise?
Peace.
Robb in Sacramento
Salt
Moderator: Available
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Robb in Sacramento
- Posts: 181
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- Location: Sacramento, California, USA
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Gene DeMambro
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- Location: Weymouth, MA US of A
Salt
As a genral rule, Sodium (i.e. salt) follows water in the body. If you have a lot of Sodium, you will retain water (at least that is a theory behind some high blood pressure cases). If you loose water, through medication, persispiration, urination, then you will also loose sodium.
Gene
Gene
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Collin Warder
- Posts: 123
- Joined: Thu Jun 10, 1999 6:01 am
Salt
Rob From My Home Town:
Personally I think salt tabs are overemphesized, despite there usefullness in extreme cases. I know they are a mandatory component in any Brittish SAS Survival Kit.
Ok off topic a bit here...Rob can you tell me of a place in Sac that teaches Uechi Ryu? I have background Tae Kwon Do, Kaju Kenpo, Wing Chun Kung Fu, and some grappling. This message board has me intrigued with Uechi. David Sensei spoke of a good intstructor in this city.
-Collin
Personally I think salt tabs are overemphesized, despite there usefullness in extreme cases. I know they are a mandatory component in any Brittish SAS Survival Kit.
Ok off topic a bit here...Rob can you tell me of a place in Sac that teaches Uechi Ryu? I have background Tae Kwon Do, Kaju Kenpo, Wing Chun Kung Fu, and some grappling. This message board has me intrigued with Uechi. David Sensei spoke of a good intstructor in this city.
-Collin
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Robb in Sacramento
- Posts: 181
- Joined: Fri Sep 25, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Salt
Mr. Warder:
I would be happy to help you out on this one. You have a couple of options. Dr. Joan Neide teaches a Uechi class at CSU, Sacramento. Dr. Neide's Uechi credentials are every bit as impressive as her academic credentials. She leads a workout grounded in her training on Okinawa. Her students have formed a Uechi club, and hold workouts in addition to her classes. You may reach her through the college.
Mr. Stephen Harrington teaches a combination of Uechi and Shorin in Rocklin. While his karate reflects the strength and knowledge he gained in more than a dozen years of training on Okinawa, it is his kobudo that truly wows those of us who have had the pleasure of working out with him. Be prepared for a training session than can be challenging.
There is also a school located in Citrus Heights, listed in the phone book under Okinawan Karate.
If none of these fit your schedule, please feel free to drop my class at East Portal Park on Tues. and Thurs. evenings.
Sounds like you have made the rounds locally in other styles. I think we are pretty fortunate to have access to some of the instructors available in this town in various styles. Anyway, hope this helps.
Peace.
Robb in Sacramento
I would be happy to help you out on this one. You have a couple of options. Dr. Joan Neide teaches a Uechi class at CSU, Sacramento. Dr. Neide's Uechi credentials are every bit as impressive as her academic credentials. She leads a workout grounded in her training on Okinawa. Her students have formed a Uechi club, and hold workouts in addition to her classes. You may reach her through the college.
Mr. Stephen Harrington teaches a combination of Uechi and Shorin in Rocklin. While his karate reflects the strength and knowledge he gained in more than a dozen years of training on Okinawa, it is his kobudo that truly wows those of us who have had the pleasure of working out with him. Be prepared for a training session than can be challenging.
There is also a school located in Citrus Heights, listed in the phone book under Okinawan Karate.
If none of these fit your schedule, please feel free to drop my class at East Portal Park on Tues. and Thurs. evenings.
Sounds like you have made the rounds locally in other styles. I think we are pretty fortunate to have access to some of the instructors available in this town in various styles. Anyway, hope this helps.
Peace.
Robb in Sacramento
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Salt
Robb
Unfortunately nutrition and diet are two parts of our body of knowledge that we still know so little about.
* It is true that at one time they recommended salt tablets in hot weather.
* It is also true that at one time they thought high sodium diets were bad for your average person (were a significant cause of blood pressure).
These two ideas are still being explored, but a consensus is now being reached. The vast majority of people should actually avoid consuming salt tablets during hot weather. Actually they are more likely to do harm (via reverse osmosis) than good.
The best way to hydrate yourself is with cold water. One must drink often, and beyond thirst. Forget the Gatorade - they pay Michael and the NFL to promote their green water. There are some individuals who - because of medical conditions or because of medication they are taking - lose certain elements and need to have them replaced (such as diuretics and potassium). A doctor can instruct the patient on these special needs. If you insist that you need a little extra "salt", then sprinkle a little sea salt on your food. It is actually more complete than sodium chloride. By the time you are in athletic competition, it is too late to be consuming "salt". Again, it is more likely to dehydrate you.
The best way to avoid losing too much in the way of body salts when sweating is to get in shape. People who are in shape tend not to lose their body salts through their sweat.
If you feel like you need the "sugar" that is in a sport drink, then put a dash of orange juice in your cold water. Again, high sugar content in a sport drink can dehydrate you. By the time of the athletic competition, it is too late to be packing away the glucose. Only marathon runners (and other athletes who compete over a very long period of time) are in a situation where they must consume calories while competing. And these folks drink more water than juice.
Sodium used to be the bad boy of hypertension. Now it is know that only a minority of people are "salt sensitive". There is actually more problem with not enough calcium in the diet than too much sodium when it comes to keeping the blood pressure down. Long-term (and I mean long term) use of medications (like ibuprophen and aceteminophen) can also lead to hypertension.
The references - by the way - are too many to cite. If you are really interested, I could dig some up.
- Bill
[This message has been edited by Bill Glasheen (edited 07-12-99).]
Unfortunately nutrition and diet are two parts of our body of knowledge that we still know so little about.
* It is true that at one time they recommended salt tablets in hot weather.
* It is also true that at one time they thought high sodium diets were bad for your average person (were a significant cause of blood pressure).
These two ideas are still being explored, but a consensus is now being reached. The vast majority of people should actually avoid consuming salt tablets during hot weather. Actually they are more likely to do harm (via reverse osmosis) than good.
The best way to hydrate yourself is with cold water. One must drink often, and beyond thirst. Forget the Gatorade - they pay Michael and the NFL to promote their green water. There are some individuals who - because of medical conditions or because of medication they are taking - lose certain elements and need to have them replaced (such as diuretics and potassium). A doctor can instruct the patient on these special needs. If you insist that you need a little extra "salt", then sprinkle a little sea salt on your food. It is actually more complete than sodium chloride. By the time you are in athletic competition, it is too late to be consuming "salt". Again, it is more likely to dehydrate you.
The best way to avoid losing too much in the way of body salts when sweating is to get in shape. People who are in shape tend not to lose their body salts through their sweat.
If you feel like you need the "sugar" that is in a sport drink, then put a dash of orange juice in your cold water. Again, high sugar content in a sport drink can dehydrate you. By the time of the athletic competition, it is too late to be packing away the glucose. Only marathon runners (and other athletes who compete over a very long period of time) are in a situation where they must consume calories while competing. And these folks drink more water than juice.
Sodium used to be the bad boy of hypertension. Now it is know that only a minority of people are "salt sensitive". There is actually more problem with not enough calcium in the diet than too much sodium when it comes to keeping the blood pressure down. Long-term (and I mean long term) use of medications (like ibuprophen and aceteminophen) can also lead to hypertension.
The references - by the way - are too many to cite. If you are really interested, I could dig some up.
- Bill
[This message has been edited by Bill Glasheen (edited 07-12-99).]
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Salt
J.D.
You bring up a good point about iodized salt (sodium chloride). Indeed the reason for the iodization was because people who lived where the iodine content in the soil was low - and they only ate local food - ended up with thyroid problems (goiters). My guess is that sea water (and thus sea salt) has iodine in it. I could be wrong. I also believe that you have to try very hard to remove all "salt" from your diet.
Along those same lines, though, I've read recently where some of the obsessed Crunchy Granola and Yuppie types are having all kinds of dental problems (not seen in a generation) with their kids. Why? Because in the interest of avoiding all the "toxins" in tap water by giving them only the bottled type, they have removed a significant source of flouride from their kids' diets. Hello, cavities! This also reminds me of the cases of obsessed parents who had kids (less than 2 years of age) with stunted growth - because they were putting their infants and toddlers on low fat diets. Or....the case of the POWs held by the Japanese being in better shape than their captors - because they were fed "inferior" brown rice.
And now I hear that we need to stay away from sprouts:
http://www.msnbc.com/news/288379.asp
It's good to question "conventional wisdom". When it comes to diet, it's never quite as simple as some would make it out to be.
- Bill
You bring up a good point about iodized salt (sodium chloride). Indeed the reason for the iodization was because people who lived where the iodine content in the soil was low - and they only ate local food - ended up with thyroid problems (goiters). My guess is that sea water (and thus sea salt) has iodine in it. I could be wrong. I also believe that you have to try very hard to remove all "salt" from your diet.
Along those same lines, though, I've read recently where some of the obsessed Crunchy Granola and Yuppie types are having all kinds of dental problems (not seen in a generation) with their kids. Why? Because in the interest of avoiding all the "toxins" in tap water by giving them only the bottled type, they have removed a significant source of flouride from their kids' diets. Hello, cavities! This also reminds me of the cases of obsessed parents who had kids (less than 2 years of age) with stunted growth - because they were putting their infants and toddlers on low fat diets. Or....the case of the POWs held by the Japanese being in better shape than their captors - because they were fed "inferior" brown rice.
And now I hear that we need to stay away from sprouts:
http://www.msnbc.com/news/288379.asp
It's good to question "conventional wisdom". When it comes to diet, it's never quite as simple as some would make it out to be.
- Bill
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Salt
J.D.
Agreed that sea salt is almost exclusively NaCl, and nothing else is "attached". But it is not 100% NaCl. There are other ions in sea water. And - strangly enough - the proportions of them look a lot like what is in our "bodily fluids."
- Bill
Agreed that sea salt is almost exclusively NaCl, and nothing else is "attached". But it is not 100% NaCl. There are other ions in sea water. And - strangly enough - the proportions of them look a lot like what is in our "bodily fluids."
- Bill
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Collin Warder
- Posts: 123
- Joined: Thu Jun 10, 1999 6:01 am
Salt
Rob:
Thank you for your help. It is true that between the colleges, clubs and commercial dojos/kwoons, Sacramento has a wonderful assortment of styles.
Thank you for your help. It is true that between the colleges, clubs and commercial dojos/kwoons, Sacramento has a wonderful assortment of styles.
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Robb in Sacramento
- Posts: 181
- Joined: Fri Sep 25, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Salt
Dr. Bill and Dr. J.D.:
Thanks for the feedback on salt...so, as long as I am exploring myths and legends from my high school days, what about don't drink cold water. Again, my high school coaches told me it would cause cramping; but, Runner's World, suggested than not only should one's water be cold during exercise, but that the body tends to absorb cold water faster than room temperature water. I have taken to putting ice in the water bottle I carry while running, and have yet to experience any nasty side effects. But, is there a preferred temperature for water absorbsion [?] on a hot day?
Also, thoughts on those nasty tasting little packettes of sugar/syrup that seem to be so popular with my marathoning and tri athlete friends. Are these purely for endurance events, or would they help during a work out (providing, of course, that one can even tolerate swallowing the stuff)? I am assuming that if sugar in the water is not going to be helpful, neither are these.
Thanks again for the advice. As we push toward 106 today, I view this as a timely subject.
Peace
Robb in Sacramento
Thanks for the feedback on salt...so, as long as I am exploring myths and legends from my high school days, what about don't drink cold water. Again, my high school coaches told me it would cause cramping; but, Runner's World, suggested than not only should one's water be cold during exercise, but that the body tends to absorb cold water faster than room temperature water. I have taken to putting ice in the water bottle I carry while running, and have yet to experience any nasty side effects. But, is there a preferred temperature for water absorbsion [?] on a hot day?
Also, thoughts on those nasty tasting little packettes of sugar/syrup that seem to be so popular with my marathoning and tri athlete friends. Are these purely for endurance events, or would they help during a work out (providing, of course, that one can even tolerate swallowing the stuff)? I am assuming that if sugar in the water is not going to be helpful, neither are these.
Thanks again for the advice. As we push toward 106 today, I view this as a timely subject.
Peace
Robb in Sacramento
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Salt
Robb
The "latest" is indeed to drink cold water because allegedly you absorb it better. The cramping bit apparently is just another disproven myth. Why do you absorb cold water faster than warm? Frankly I'm not sure of this one. It probably has something to do with GI blood vessels vasodilating, thus making the total blood barrier surface area higher and having a faster transport of that water into the rest of the body. However you do get the added benefit of cooling your body down with cold water. And if you cool down enough, you won't lose as much water through sweat. That's a good enough reason for me.
I think that - unless you are a triathlete or a marathon runner - you should skip sugar injestion during a competition or training. In just about any other athletic activity, you want to eat in such a way that you maximize your glycogen reserves BEFORE you train or compete. During the competition, you want your GI system to take a break if possible. The super-long-distance athletes are in a special category of people who are guaranteed to "bonk" (run out of stores and end up with low blood sugar) regardless of how much you store beforehand.
Another exception might be a person who enters a tournament where the competition is spread out through the day. Obviously in this case you want to have a number of light meals through the day to maintain your reserves. On my Saturdays when I teach from 10:30 AM thru 2 or 3 PM, I take a liquid (aminos and fructose, etc.) meal break in the middle to keep me going strong. I do however slow down a bit if possible until my body has a chance to absorb it.
One thing that weight trainers and bodybuilders do is to have a high-glycemic-index (e.g. sugar) carbohydrate right after the weight session. The theory is that, by definition, you cause a burst of insulin release - at a time when your body can use it for anabolic (muscle-building) purposes. Plus...apparently your cells are ready to convert sugar to glycogen in this window of time. Anyhow, that's the theory. It's also a window of opportunity to take that creatine supplement (along with the sugar), if you are into that.
- Bill
[This message has been edited by Bill Glasheen (edited 07-12-99).]
The "latest" is indeed to drink cold water because allegedly you absorb it better. The cramping bit apparently is just another disproven myth. Why do you absorb cold water faster than warm? Frankly I'm not sure of this one. It probably has something to do with GI blood vessels vasodilating, thus making the total blood barrier surface area higher and having a faster transport of that water into the rest of the body. However you do get the added benefit of cooling your body down with cold water. And if you cool down enough, you won't lose as much water through sweat. That's a good enough reason for me.
I think that - unless you are a triathlete or a marathon runner - you should skip sugar injestion during a competition or training. In just about any other athletic activity, you want to eat in such a way that you maximize your glycogen reserves BEFORE you train or compete. During the competition, you want your GI system to take a break if possible. The super-long-distance athletes are in a special category of people who are guaranteed to "bonk" (run out of stores and end up with low blood sugar) regardless of how much you store beforehand.
Another exception might be a person who enters a tournament where the competition is spread out through the day. Obviously in this case you want to have a number of light meals through the day to maintain your reserves. On my Saturdays when I teach from 10:30 AM thru 2 or 3 PM, I take a liquid (aminos and fructose, etc.) meal break in the middle to keep me going strong. I do however slow down a bit if possible until my body has a chance to absorb it.
One thing that weight trainers and bodybuilders do is to have a high-glycemic-index (e.g. sugar) carbohydrate right after the weight session. The theory is that, by definition, you cause a burst of insulin release - at a time when your body can use it for anabolic (muscle-building) purposes. Plus...apparently your cells are ready to convert sugar to glycogen in this window of time. Anyhow, that's the theory. It's also a window of opportunity to take that creatine supplement (along with the sugar), if you are into that.
- Bill
[This message has been edited by Bill Glasheen (edited 07-12-99).]
Salt
Down here in humid, hot Florida, making sure you are hydrated before you begin a workout can be a challenging practice.
It is an extremely important habit that can get easily overlooked. The hotter and more humid, the harder and longer the work out, the older the practitioner, the fitness level, all dictate the sense of urgency about hydration.
I have found out the hard way the price to pay for poor hydration:
* more muscle soreness
* longer muscle recovery from strenuous workouts.
* headaches and light headedness
I understand that too many soft drinks, etc. can affect your body's hydration as well, so keep it just good ol' H20.
Begin hydration as early in the day as possible. If your urination is frequent and very "clear" you are probably getting hydrated. Pardon the restroom terminology.
Actually, especially during the summer, I have found it easiest to keep my hydration schedule constant, then I don't worry about it. I may slack off some at night for obvious reasons.
JohnC
It is an extremely important habit that can get easily overlooked. The hotter and more humid, the harder and longer the work out, the older the practitioner, the fitness level, all dictate the sense of urgency about hydration.
I have found out the hard way the price to pay for poor hydration:
* more muscle soreness
* longer muscle recovery from strenuous workouts.
* headaches and light headedness
I understand that too many soft drinks, etc. can affect your body's hydration as well, so keep it just good ol' H20.
Begin hydration as early in the day as possible. If your urination is frequent and very "clear" you are probably getting hydrated. Pardon the restroom terminology.
Actually, especially during the summer, I have found it easiest to keep my hydration schedule constant, then I don't worry about it. I may slack off some at night for obvious reasons.
JohnC
Salt
J.D.
Yep, I am now wise in the way of pee.
When the heat index in Florida is 110, in our ventilated, but uncooled dojo and during a long bout of okinawan wrestling or sparring, you become wise in the way of pee or suffer the consequences.
JohnC
Yep, I am now wise in the way of pee.
When the heat index in Florida is 110, in our ventilated, but uncooled dojo and during a long bout of okinawan wrestling or sparring, you become wise in the way of pee or suffer the consequences.
JohnC
