Teaching how to hit hard.

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Rick Wilson

Teaching how to hit hard.

Post by Rick Wilson »

My friend Rick Bottomley and I have been working for some time now on how to try and teach someone to hit HARD (and how to hit hard ourselves).

Those who hit hard know that the proper use of mass is a must and intent is another. They must learn to connect they entire body to the strike in a line from the ground to the weapon.

To teach them to hit with mass I have come to a somewhat unique conclusion: You should teach them to strike with their shoulders first.

Give me a moment to explain.

STEP ONE:

Have a student who is having trouble hitting (or is new) stand off centred of a heavy bag.

Have them set up - without hitting the bag -- drop into a horse stance so that their foot will penetrate passed the bag.

Now centre them on the bag and have them drop into a horse stance striking the bag with their shoulder. THEIR FOOT MUST HAVE STILL PENETRATED PASSED THE BAG, JUST AS IT DID IN THE SETUP.

Once they work on this you can have them step into the bag and strike with the shoulder from Sanchin. They can slide step into the bag with the lead shoulder. Note: the same penetration must take place.

When they strike with their shoulder and penetrate the target, they basically are doing the physical part correctly. Add intent.

STEP TWO:

Have the student stand off centred of a heavy bag.

Have them set up - without hitting the bag -- drop into a horse stance so that their foot will penetrate passed the bag.

Now centre them on the bag and have them drop into a horse stance striking the bag with their elbow (shoulder down). THEIR FOOT MUST HAVE STILL PENETRATED PASSED THE BAG, JUST AS IT DID IN THE SETUP.

Once they work on this you can have them step into the bag and strike with their elbow from Sanchin. They can slide step into the bag with the lead elbow. Note: the same penetration must take place.

When they strike with their elbow and penetrate the target, they basically are doing the physical part correctly. Add intent.


STEP THREE:

Same as one and two, only now pick which ever hand attachment that you want. If they do the hand strike just as they would the shoulder strike they will be attaching mass to the strike, all that is need is intent.


We developed this because beginners have a tendency to strike with just their arm, because that is the movement that they SEE. By getting them to begin practice by hitting with the shoulder it integrates the body into the strike. More complex body mechanics (compression, sinking) can come later.

Comments?


Rick
Rick Wilson

Teaching how to hit hard.

Post by Rick Wilson »

The statement:

"To teach them to hit with mass I have come to a somewhat unique conclusion: You should teach them to strike with their shoulders first."

Should say "WE have come to the conclusion".

Rick
Shelly King

Teaching how to hit hard.

Post by Shelly King »

Ok but how do you actually do it without throwing your shoulder?
Gary Santaniello
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Teaching how to hit hard.

Post by Gary Santaniello »

Rick,

I find that when working out on a heavy bag by staying relaxed and accelerating the "speed" and utilizing body mechanics with focus on impact has given me a better feeling of developing power.

I find that by trying to "muscle" the hits with mass i loose some volocity on impact. Being only 185lbs. i have not much mass to hit with. However, over rescent years i have found that good form and speed are necessary. Focus on "power" alone can inhibit the quick release needed for penetration.

I may suggest the book "Explosive Karate" by Arthur Rabesa which i believe can be obtained through Sensei Mattson. He covers the "understanding of Karate Mechanics" and for a small person he is extremely powerful.

I believe that by using a method of "shoulder" first in upper body strikes or tourqing the lower body via kicks tend to create a bad habit of " telegraphing" something we DON'T want to do.

When i was breaking patio blocks i learned that trying to "muscle"
the breaks with just power was less successful (and painful) than when relaxed with speed, form and penetration. I believe that power follows these three principle. However,focus of muscle groups must also be present upon impact.

It is in my opinion that strikes in kata such as in sanchin etc. etc. can help develop increased speed and focus. However. a heavy bag does present resistance which is not present in kata.

Hitting a heavy bag is beneficial but one must be careful of developing sloppy technique and telegraphing by leading with shoulders, hips, head movement etc.

I am sure that there are others whom can shed light on this subject whom are more qualified than i however, it works for me !



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Gary S.
Rick Wilson

Teaching how to hit hard.

Post by Rick Wilson »

Posting this for Rick Bottomley:

Rick w.

1 st point

As they change the weapon, the depth of penetration with respect to the bag will change. Thisassumes that you are attacking from your "safe distancing" position which should be the samefor all the strikes. Longer the weapon, less penetration required. The concept of the moving themass forward and connecting it to the strike doesn't.

2 nd point

If they learn to hit properly, the force of their strikes will exceed the strength of their weaponto withstand it, particularly the hand (fist, nukite, etc). As this process of instruction takes timeit is critical that training time be devoted to strengthening the wrist an fist in particular. Lookat how many black belts had their wrist turn hitting your belly on our Saturday morningworkouts.

3 rd point

In training, it should be stressed that the body be vertical and centered over the midpointbetween their two feet. It may help them to think of hitting with the hips vs shoulder asstudents tend to lean the shoulder into the bag. This defeats the essence of the exercise and canhurt beginners as the force of the strike is then directed at an angle to the shoulder. In application, the body can be positioned so that you can strike with any part of it, (knees,hips, shoulder, head, etc) to where it will do the most damage. The concept of penetration isthe essence of the drill.

Rick B.
Rick Wilson

Teaching how to hit hard.

Post by Rick Wilson »

Shelly:

"Ok but how do you actually do it without throwing your shoulder?"

That is why you first teach it by having them remain upright and dropping into a horse stance. They should get the feeling of using their whole body to strike. If they disconnect at any point (tipping in with the shoulder) they loose that connection and power.


Gary:

Hmm, I must not have explained things well, the fault is mine. There is no "muscling" going on. This method teaches students to align their bodies from the ground to the weapon, thus placing their mass into the strike. MUSCLING the strike is the opposite of what I am after. Everything should be relaxed and when properly connected should have little effect on the striker (as long as the weapon can take the force).

You are correct that speed is an important element of the strike but hitting properly with mass in no way precludes adding speed. Hitting with mass IS the proper use of body mechanics. The problem I have found with most people's strikes is that they use just arm or perhaps some shoulder, or maybe some hip, or they are disconnected at some point. This training method begins to give them the feel of proper connection to the ground. Without that connection they cannot generate they maximum potential (and yes, Sensei Rabesa has that connection).

Now, understand that I am not saying that speed and form will not serve you well, and if you hit as hard as you feel that you need to -- then be happy. After taking shots at Tracey Sensei in his impact suit I want MORE POWER. So, why not have speed, form and MASS.

"I find that by trying to "muscle" the hits with mass i loose some velocity on impact."
Using mass properly should not loose you any velocity? If you mean "muscle" by tightening up, like many do, then YES YOU WOULD BE CORRECT. However, that is not what I mean. You must remain relaxed.

"I believe that by using a method of "shoulder" first in upper body strikes or tourqing the lower body via kicks tend to create a bad habit of " telegraphing" something we DON'T want to do."

Again Gary, my fault here. I never intended to imply that you should throw a hand or elbow strike shoulder first! This is a progresive training method to teach body alignment. When throwing a strike the weapon should always go first. Sorry I didn't explain that well.

I agree with much of what you have said, I would however interject that the best tools for striking are another person (extensive conditioning drills) and that impact suit.

This is a training tool not "the way".

Thanks for the comments.


Rick
Robb in Sacramento
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Teaching how to hit hard.

Post by Robb in Sacramento »

Rick,

I will have to give your approach a try, though I have found that body alignment is usually not what holds folks back from hitting hard; its the fear of hurting ones hand. When I introduce people to the makiwara, most can hit it fairly hard once or twice. But quickly, it is the hand, not the rest of the body, that proves to be problematic.

I have also found this true in breaking. Most people can hit hard enough to perform breaks. Its that fear of the board not breaking and of hurting ones hand that tends to lead for most injuries.

Since most of us use our hands for things other than hitting people, many of us harbor a deep concern for the long term health and dexterity of fingers, knuckles, and palms. Boxers wrap their hands, and yet it is not uncommon for even professional fighters to injure their hands in training.

Any ideas on building hand strengh and conditioning, while still allowing students to pursue careers playing fiddle at the "Opry?"
Peace
Robb in Sacramento
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Bill Glasheen
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Teaching how to hit hard.

Post by Bill Glasheen »

Robb

As for building hand strength while preserving dexterity, the answer is take your time. It is well worth it to settle into a gradual process. The results you get will last much longer. Many people will ignore me and smash their hands (forearms, legs, etc, etc) very hard early on. Sometimes it takes injuries to convince these people. Some never learn until their hands are arthritic; then it's too late. But for those who will listen, heed my advice. But with you, Robb, I'm sure you understand.

As for the power thing, well I think you all are on the right track by trying to hit something. Inevitably many will go through stages of development in an attempt to get that right feel and sound when they hit. We all have our own ways of doing remedial work for those who don't 'get it' right away.

One of my favorite things to do which accomplishes what Rick is trying to do works as follows. Get into your stance (sanchin?) and put your palm on the bag (rear arm as in sanchin kata). Make sure the arm is straight. Yes, straight (but not hyperextended). Then practice exploding with your body in a way that puts an indentation on the bag and sends it flying. You do not want it to be a push; it has to be an "impulse" (mathematically and figuratively speaking). If you send the bag swinging but do not make an indentation, you haven't done it right. By having the straight arm, there is no way you can use arm or shoulder strength. You have to use the legs and hips. Once you get that down, then you can do the same motion, but with a thrust. If your hand and wrist can take the energy, you should now have a very powerful thrust.

This method is not designed to give you power you don't already have. Rather it's designed to teach you how to coordinate the strength and power already within you. To develop the fundamentals, I highly recommend a program of free weight training, years of good kata practice, and time spent....hitting things.

- Bill
paul giella
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Joined: Sun Sep 27, 1998 6:01 am

Teaching how to hit hard.

Post by paul giella »

There is a passage in Musashi's famous "Book of Five Rings" in which he says the shoulder is a much neglected, but very effective, weapon. Could he be referring to your concept? Interesting to consider.
David Elkins
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Teaching how to hit hard.

Post by David Elkins »

This is perhaps just a variation on the themes presented here, but another approach is to practice to hit something with your obi. While wearing it of course. If you get the obi strike down it's a small step to add the arm. I find that it gets the idea of the hip as in a baseball pitcher into the strike. A little wind up and boom. Obviously in reality there isn't always time for a hip twist, however, as a preemptive strike, sure. As Peter Consterdine says while torquing away from the bad guy..."look I don't want any trouble" Bad Guy "Hey, where did my favorite teeth go?"

David

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Good training,
David
Gary Santaniello
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Location: Randolph Ma USA

Teaching how to hit hard.

Post by Gary Santaniello »

Rick W.

My apologies for misunderstanding you.
I do that sometimes.

Regarding Mass and power i aprreciate the desire to continue an effort in developing more of it for that desructive penetrating blow but also consider this;

You work out hard. You do heavy bag drills. You might do some lifting and/or cardio trainning. Maybe even some wood and concrete breaking. How much power and mass can a person with limited size generate? It will cap off at some point. Surely the power hitting drills are good and beneficial but think about "target" areas that get results without needing 220lb mass that one don't have.

My concentration is starting to shift now to "Vital points" pressure point strikes. Hitting knee and arm joints. Throat and head areas.Technique and application. With all respect, i know many are focused on only "power". I can appreciate that but, there is more. Don't you think?

Of course we need to teach "how to hit"
maybe i'm looking beyond that on a different level.I understand your post now as you explained. Just sharing some additional thoughts.

Peace,

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Gary S.
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