Another lady at work has started taking Tae-Bo this week, so I quizzed her on the specifics. At first it really seemed like a good thing...the first class was alot of demonstration on proper technique, good posture, hyper-extention warnings, all that kind of thing. It really sounded like a legitimate aerobics class until...she started talking about its use as a method for self-defense and actually had some of the participants do phony attacks while she punched and kicked at them. Needless to say, I was stunned and really didn't know what to say.
------------------
Shelly
Tee-Bee (Tae-Bo?) #2
Moderator: Available
-
gmattson
- Site Admin
- Posts: 6070
- Joined: Wed Sep 16, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: Lake Mary, Florida
- Contact:
Tee-Bee (Tae-Bo?) #2
I discussed a little of this issue in my whats new column today. Besides the competition from all the other self defense programs being introduced, we are now faced with aerobic instructors being certified in new aerobic drills that include punching and kicking. To the general public, these sessions are viewed as alternatives to legitimate martial art programs.
------------------
GEM
------------------
GEM
-
RACastanet
- Posts: 3744
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA
Tee-Bee (Tae-Bo?) #2
Okay, let us continue the thread.
To Bill G. sensei's point, one of the health clubs we teach at is having a weekend seminar on 10/16,17 to get the instructors certified in kick boxing aerobics. I wonder who does that? This gym has its own version, not official T-B, but is still probably paying someone big $$$ for the effort.
Bill: Maybe one of us should sit in. I could hang the kick box certificate next to the one GEM sensei issues and be certified to teach Uechi-Richi-Kickbox-ryu, or something like that.
Keep those comments coming!
Regards, Rich
To Bill G. sensei's point, one of the health clubs we teach at is having a weekend seminar on 10/16,17 to get the instructors certified in kick boxing aerobics. I wonder who does that? This gym has its own version, not official T-B, but is still probably paying someone big $$$ for the effort.
Bill: Maybe one of us should sit in. I could hang the kick box certificate next to the one GEM sensei issues and be certified to teach Uechi-Richi-Kickbox-ryu, or something like that.
Keep those comments coming!
Regards, Rich
-
Scott Danziger
- Posts: 929
- Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: Long Island
- Contact:
Tee-Bee (Tae-Bo?) #2
JD, you wrote:
We are all "traditional" martial artists. [Cue Pomp and Circumstances--Ed.] How do we inspire students to follow that path rather than the easy and illigitimate path?
I don't think you can inspire people to follow that path. I think, people either will or they won't. Like anything else in life. Why do some people want to be nurses or EMT's and not doctors?
I think you can present to people what is out there, the differences, why you may have chosen the path you took but still, there are some who want the Big Mac and some who want the filet mignion(sp?). As long as they know the difference.
Scott
[This message has been edited by Scott Danziger (edited 09-27-99).]
We are all "traditional" martial artists. [Cue Pomp and Circumstances--Ed.] How do we inspire students to follow that path rather than the easy and illigitimate path?
I don't think you can inspire people to follow that path. I think, people either will or they won't. Like anything else in life. Why do some people want to be nurses or EMT's and not doctors?
I think you can present to people what is out there, the differences, why you may have chosen the path you took but still, there are some who want the Big Mac and some who want the filet mignion(sp?). As long as they know the difference.
Scott
[This message has been edited by Scott Danziger (edited 09-27-99).]
-
Shelly King
Tee-Bee (Tae-Bo?) #2
Let me just say "hopping Mad"...
After my last post on this topic about the woman taking Tae-Bo and the instructor doing self-defence techniques...I went and talked to her(woman from work), asking her if she thought that Tae-Bo would actually work against an attack. She didn't really know or care because she was just taking it to get into shape. Good for her. On the other side, after class last night, she asked her "instructor" about the things we had talked about ie. not really a self-defense system. The instructor told her that Tae-bo is a credible method of self-defense and that it not being was just a lie made up by karate schools to try to keep students from switching. Once again, I find myself speechless...with vague fantasies of someone showing this "instructor" the subtle difference.
------------------
Shelly
After my last post on this topic about the woman taking Tae-Bo and the instructor doing self-defence techniques...I went and talked to her(woman from work), asking her if she thought that Tae-Bo would actually work against an attack. She didn't really know or care because she was just taking it to get into shape. Good for her. On the other side, after class last night, she asked her "instructor" about the things we had talked about ie. not really a self-defense system. The instructor told her that Tae-bo is a credible method of self-defense and that it not being was just a lie made up by karate schools to try to keep students from switching. Once again, I find myself speechless...with vague fantasies of someone showing this "instructor" the subtle difference.
------------------
Shelly
-
Jackie Olsen
- Posts: 619
- Joined: Fri Sep 18, 1998 6:01 am
- Contact:
Tee-Bee (Tae-Bo?) #2
Shelly et al...
If anyone's seen the Tae-Bo tapes, website or commercials --- there is a warning against "unauthorized" teachers of the "system." People are encouraged to report them to the Billy Blanks organization.
According to their PR ... there are no certified teachers outside of their home market in California. I suspect aerobics instructors and/or karate students purchased the tape, learned the moves, and now teach the class.
There is a club over here that dropped Tae-Bo. Students complained of "repetition" of moves as being too boring. These are the same students that probably wouldn't have enough discipline to study karate.
Tae-bo is a good aerobics workout period, and not a self-defense system. I like the workout for a change of pace to complement my training. It has helped me with my stamina and kicking. Of course, I could have spent more time just doing kicks and probably achieved the same effect.
Jackie
If anyone's seen the Tae-Bo tapes, website or commercials --- there is a warning against "unauthorized" teachers of the "system." People are encouraged to report them to the Billy Blanks organization.
According to their PR ... there are no certified teachers outside of their home market in California. I suspect aerobics instructors and/or karate students purchased the tape, learned the moves, and now teach the class.
There is a club over here that dropped Tae-Bo. Students complained of "repetition" of moves as being too boring. These are the same students that probably wouldn't have enough discipline to study karate.
Tae-bo is a good aerobics workout period, and not a self-defense system. I like the workout for a change of pace to complement my training. It has helped me with my stamina and kicking. Of course, I could have spent more time just doing kicks and probably achieved the same effect.
Jackie
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Tee-Bee (Tae-Bo?) #2
Shelly
Oh....this bring back memories.
Back in the very early seventies (were you born yet, little girl??) I was studying traditional Japanese karate with a fellow by the name of Hiroshi Hamada. This guy was (and still is) the real deal. He was born into the samurai class, and his father put the unruly lad into a monastery at age 7 to teach him discipline, etc. By the latter 60's, he was in America teaching authentic karate jutsu to students at the college of William & Mary. The good news was that it was authentic karate; the bad news was that it was heavy (VERY heavy) on hazing, etc - typical of some Japanese karate schools. He was eventually asked to leave W&M, but then got a position as "martial artist in residence" at Old Dominion University - a place where SAT scores are a joke. He now has his army of loyal followers, and scores of incredible students some of whom have left to study where they don't have to put up with the hazing. Anyhow, you get the picture: authentic karate, Japanese tradition, honor, and an attitude.
Back in the latter 60's/early 70's, karate was BIG. Anyone who hung up the shingle could be guaranteed a roomful of students. Many folks (like sensei Mattson) had as many as 500 students among all the various classes. With so much demand and so little knowledge of what real karate was like....you guessed it - the situation was ripe for the appearance of charletans. And boy were there a lot of them.
A good friend of mine was a former student of the now Shihan Hamada and is now a breakaway shihan himself. Back then he was karate student and a lineman on the W&M football team. He told me of this ritual that Mr. Hamada used to do back then.
Rrrrrriiiiinnnng "Bill, come meet me at the so-called karate school on Jefferson Avenue at 8 tonight. We are going to pay Mr. Smith a visit." At 8 PM, the small but agile Mr. Hamada steps into the school wearing a black leather jacket and sunglasses. Behind him is a massive, unsmiling fellow. Mr. Hamada approaches Mr. Smith, who is teaching class. "Show me your certificates," says Mr. Hamada. Mr. Smith babbles about having them elsewhere. Mr. Hamada comes within breath range of Mr. Smith and starts pounding his extended index finger on his chest. "You are a phoney. You are a fraud. You are an embarassment to a sacred art. Close down your school at once."
Well, that's one way you could approach this instructor, Shelly. Or maybe you could go on over and invite her to participate in your dojo sparring class. Tell her your people would be happy to provide the after-I-kick-your-butt refreshments.
-OR-
Maybe it's an opportunity to look at what the Tae Bo and Aerobic Kickboxing people do. And look at what your karate dojo does that they don't do: kotekitae, ashikitae, yakusoku kumite, jiyu kumite, kata done with precision and intent. And then redouble your efforts at these so that you can be the best traditional martial artist you can be. Be a model representative of what you do.
And if you like doing hojoundo to music in class, well then steal the idea. You can do what they do, only you can do it better. And they'll never bring those other elements into their classes. Those are the parts of a karate workout that separate the men form the boys, and the women from the girls.
Still....the class could do kotekitae to music. I've done it before - it's kinda fun for those of us who have rhythm.
- Bill
Oh....this bring back memories.
Back in the very early seventies (were you born yet, little girl??) I was studying traditional Japanese karate with a fellow by the name of Hiroshi Hamada. This guy was (and still is) the real deal. He was born into the samurai class, and his father put the unruly lad into a monastery at age 7 to teach him discipline, etc. By the latter 60's, he was in America teaching authentic karate jutsu to students at the college of William & Mary. The good news was that it was authentic karate; the bad news was that it was heavy (VERY heavy) on hazing, etc - typical of some Japanese karate schools. He was eventually asked to leave W&M, but then got a position as "martial artist in residence" at Old Dominion University - a place where SAT scores are a joke. He now has his army of loyal followers, and scores of incredible students some of whom have left to study where they don't have to put up with the hazing. Anyhow, you get the picture: authentic karate, Japanese tradition, honor, and an attitude.
Back in the latter 60's/early 70's, karate was BIG. Anyone who hung up the shingle could be guaranteed a roomful of students. Many folks (like sensei Mattson) had as many as 500 students among all the various classes. With so much demand and so little knowledge of what real karate was like....you guessed it - the situation was ripe for the appearance of charletans. And boy were there a lot of them.
A good friend of mine was a former student of the now Shihan Hamada and is now a breakaway shihan himself. Back then he was karate student and a lineman on the W&M football team. He told me of this ritual that Mr. Hamada used to do back then.
Rrrrrriiiiinnnng "Bill, come meet me at the so-called karate school on Jefferson Avenue at 8 tonight. We are going to pay Mr. Smith a visit." At 8 PM, the small but agile Mr. Hamada steps into the school wearing a black leather jacket and sunglasses. Behind him is a massive, unsmiling fellow. Mr. Hamada approaches Mr. Smith, who is teaching class. "Show me your certificates," says Mr. Hamada. Mr. Smith babbles about having them elsewhere. Mr. Hamada comes within breath range of Mr. Smith and starts pounding his extended index finger on his chest. "You are a phoney. You are a fraud. You are an embarassment to a sacred art. Close down your school at once."
Well, that's one way you could approach this instructor, Shelly. Or maybe you could go on over and invite her to participate in your dojo sparring class. Tell her your people would be happy to provide the after-I-kick-your-butt refreshments.
-OR-
Maybe it's an opportunity to look at what the Tae Bo and Aerobic Kickboxing people do. And look at what your karate dojo does that they don't do: kotekitae, ashikitae, yakusoku kumite, jiyu kumite, kata done with precision and intent. And then redouble your efforts at these so that you can be the best traditional martial artist you can be. Be a model representative of what you do.
And if you like doing hojoundo to music in class, well then steal the idea. You can do what they do, only you can do it better. And they'll never bring those other elements into their classes. Those are the parts of a karate workout that separate the men form the boys, and the women from the girls.
Still....the class could do kotekitae to music. I've done it before - it's kinda fun for those of us who have rhythm.
- Bill
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Tee-Bee (Tae-Bo?) #2
J.D. san
No, no, no, no.... Back then I was dirt poor. I didn't have that "chick magnet" - the van with an 8-track tape deck (and the bed in the back). Didn't have much in the way of dates either; I was running cross country and weighed 145 with a 6 foot frame. But then Shelly might argue that it was my personality...
I was thinking more along the line of John Cougar Mellancamp Hurts so good.
- Bill
P.S. I was a purist. Reel-to-reel deck, son. Auto hi-fi was an oxymoron to me.
[This message has been edited by Bill Glasheen (edited 09-29-99).]
No, no, no, no.... Back then I was dirt poor. I didn't have that "chick magnet" - the van with an 8-track tape deck (and the bed in the back). Didn't have much in the way of dates either; I was running cross country and weighed 145 with a 6 foot frame. But then Shelly might argue that it was my personality...
I was thinking more along the line of John Cougar Mellancamp Hurts so good.
- Bill
P.S. I was a purist. Reel-to-reel deck, son. Auto hi-fi was an oxymoron to me.
[This message has been edited by Bill Glasheen (edited 09-29-99).]
-
Shelly King
Tee-Bee (Tae-Bo?) #2
Jackie
Checked into the class and technically they don't call it "Tae-bo". And I do not have a problem with tae-bo as an aerobic activity. Anything that gets people off the couch and doing something works for me as long as it's done in a responsible manner.
Bill-san
Yes, this little girl was around in the seventies. Actually I do like to do hojo undo and kotekitae to music at home. I prefer Metallica though. Normally, I wouldn't have cared what the instructor was teaching or how they were presenting the material until I read J.D.'s post on what if someone stayed in a dangerous situation because they thought they could handle it. A false sense of security is a dangerous thing. I do however strive to be the best karateka that I can personally be. Believe me, I wouldn't have started weight training if I didn't think it was something I needed to improve my MA skill.
Oh well, to each their own, I guess.
------------------
Shelly
Checked into the class and technically they don't call it "Tae-bo". And I do not have a problem with tae-bo as an aerobic activity. Anything that gets people off the couch and doing something works for me as long as it's done in a responsible manner.
Bill-san
Yes, this little girl was around in the seventies. Actually I do like to do hojo undo and kotekitae to music at home. I prefer Metallica though. Normally, I wouldn't have cared what the instructor was teaching or how they were presenting the material until I read J.D.'s post on what if someone stayed in a dangerous situation because they thought they could handle it. A false sense of security is a dangerous thing. I do however strive to be the best karateka that I can personally be. Believe me, I wouldn't have started weight training if I didn't think it was something I needed to improve my MA skill.
Oh well, to each their own, I guess.
------------------
Shelly
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Tee-Bee (Tae-Bo?) #2
Shelly
Metallica works. He-e-e-e, he-e-e-e, he-e-e-e! J.D. tells me that Alanis Morrisette is one of his training favorites. Says it puts him in touch with his yin. Such a sensitive guy!
To all
I had this nagging thought in my head, but didn't mention it. Then I ran across a statement in an article in MA Training - a cheesey looking magazine that's actually not bad on the inside. This quote comes from the November 1999 issue - The Most Common Strength-Training Mistakes Martial Artists Make, Part II by Charles I. Staley, B.Sc., MSS. I agree wholeheartedly with all his points in the article. Now, to the subject at hand: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
- Bill
[This message has been edited by Bill Glasheen (edited 09-29-99).]
Metallica works. He-e-e-e, he-e-e-e, he-e-e-e! J.D. tells me that Alanis Morrisette is one of his training favorites. Says it puts him in touch with his yin. Such a sensitive guy!
To all
I had this nagging thought in my head, but didn't mention it. Then I ran across a statement in an article in MA Training - a cheesey looking magazine that's actually not bad on the inside. This quote comes from the November 1999 issue - The Most Common Strength-Training Mistakes Martial Artists Make, Part II by Charles I. Staley, B.Sc., MSS. I agree wholeheartedly with all his points in the article. Now, to the subject at hand: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
Amen, I say.3) Ignoring the principle of specificity. The body's adaptation to training is very specific to the type of training that you've done. This is sometimes referred to as the "S.A.I.D." principle - Specific Adaptation to Imposed Demand.....The specificity principle is abused in other aspects of martial arts training, as well. For example, most instructors train their students aerobically, despite the fact that nearly all forms of martial arts, including self-defense scenarios, are predominately anaerobic.....
- Bill
[This message has been edited by Bill Glasheen (edited 09-29-99).]
Tee-Bee (Tae-Bo?) #2
Re: S.A.I.D., Train your endurance if you want to act like prey - say a deer, impala, zebra, etc. Train in power and explosiveness if you want to act like a predator. The kill only takes seconds.
david
david
-
RACastanet
- Posts: 3744
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA
Tee-Bee (Tae-Bo?) #2
JD: During this weekend's kyu test I think I'll play 'String of Pearls' during kotekitae and breakfalls. This should get them pumped up.
Rich
Rich
-
Moe Mensale
- Posts: 148
- Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: Boca Raton, FL
Tee-Bee (Tae-Bo?) #2
The local Tang Soo Do instructor has begun offering a new cardio defense program. Can't get much more blatant than that now, can we?
What do you think the students will really think they will be learning? The major problem when people start going for the quick & easy is that they won't have the common sense to know when to back out of a situation - "Ohhh, this looks like an opportune time to try that lovely reverse side split double kick smack dab we learned last night!" Crunch!!
I think Bill makes a good point though - why can't we take some of the "lighter" shtick that TB, etc, offer and put it into our programs without altering the validity of what we teach? Sounds OK to me.
No Alanis Morrisette however - sorry JD.
Moe Mensale
What do you think the students will really think they will be learning? The major problem when people start going for the quick & easy is that they won't have the common sense to know when to back out of a situation - "Ohhh, this looks like an opportune time to try that lovely reverse side split double kick smack dab we learned last night!" Crunch!!
I think Bill makes a good point though - why can't we take some of the "lighter" shtick that TB, etc, offer and put it into our programs without altering the validity of what we teach? Sounds OK to me.
No Alanis Morrisette however - sorry JD.
Moe Mensale
-
Jackie Olsen
- Posts: 619
- Joined: Fri Sep 18, 1998 6:01 am
- Contact:
Tee-Bee (Tae-Bo?) #2
Rich ...
How about trying Information Society's "Sheer Energy" or the music from "Mortal Kombat, Part 1" Now THAT's energizing!
All this talk of sweat : <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
Jackie
How about trying Information Society's "Sheer Energy" or the music from "Mortal Kombat, Part 1" Now THAT's energizing!
All this talk of sweat : <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
Reminds of an old SNL skit "I'm Hans, He's Franz and we want to PUMP you UP!"This should get them pumped up.
Jackie
-
Jason Bernard
- Posts: 157
- Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: Evansville, IN, USA
- Contact:
Tee-Bee (Tae-Bo?) #2
Tae Bo and kickboxing aerobics may end up being a blessing in disguise. I know a ton of schools are switching over to this latest fad, and it is just a fad. Sooner of later it will blow over, so the question is will these schools be able to convert back? Will the be able to convert back quickly enough (i.e. will they become so latched on to the quick buck that Tae Bo is giving them that they won't be able to leave it once it dies)? How about the damage to the reputation as a reputable martial arts school?
The good news is that it seems to be the greediest and lowest of the schools that are latching on to this Tae Bo craze. Some other schools are doing a half and half split. My feeling is that the schools who have gone full blow kickaerobics will die when the fad dies.
(Case in point, I heard recently that the value of Beanie Babies are dropping off immensely).
Osu!
The good news is that it seems to be the greediest and lowest of the schools that are latching on to this Tae Bo craze. Some other schools are doing a half and half split. My feeling is that the schools who have gone full blow kickaerobics will die when the fad dies.
(Case in point, I heard recently that the value of Beanie Babies are dropping off immensely).
Osu!
