Hi Bill,
Good riposte!
What defines a “ non-sucking” process?
Here is an argument posed by one observer of our ranking process:
1] If rank is awarded by “politicians” sitting on a board, what difference does it make whether they are “good or bad” politicians?
2] Any rank awarded by “outstanding” politicians sitting on some “board” is just as worthless as any rank awarded by “ unqualified” politicians!
3] Adversarial factions are fond of pointing fingers claiming to have their best “ politicians” on board qualified to pass judgment! But, in the end it is “politics” that determines rank, not the “politicians”!
Is this argument a valid one? What do you think Bill?
A peer review in awarding rank is worth ten useless “politicians” boards! [My view]
Tracy Rose sensei believes that all the issues concerning rank come from
The fact that nobody works out together anymore, as respect is given and taken there!
Tracy says that he doesn’t know what defines a 6th 7th or 8th Dan, but that the ones that he knows and respects are on the floor consistently and they are, and look good!
There you have the argument for a peer review!
As I have said before, despite the immense respect I have for the great Okinawan masters, any of my promotions before their board wouldn’t be worth a damn, in my personal view, unless I had the “nod” of my peers!
So please don’t make me puke with your [not you Bill]…“shrill utterance” ……” But…but…who was the board? “
And the Quote posted by Mattson sensei says it all:
“Its not who gives them out . . . Its about how you feel about receiving it!”
------------------
Van Canna
Rank and Titles
Moderator: Available
Rank and Titles
Mattson Sensei,
Apparently we have both somehow gotten on the same %&@#^$* junk e-mail list. I got exactly the same e-mail last week. I hope you don't mind that I gave them your name
greg
Apparently we have both somehow gotten on the same %&@#^$* junk e-mail list. I got exactly the same e-mail last week. I hope you don't mind that I gave them your name
greg
-
gmattson
- Site Admin
- Posts: 6069
- Joined: Wed Sep 16, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: Lake Mary, Florida
- Contact:
Rank and Titles
Its not who gives them out. . . Its about how you feel about receiving it!
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>UNIVERSITY DIPLOMAS
Obtain a prosperous future, money earning power, and the admiration of all.
Diplomas from prestigious non-accredited universities based on your present knowledge and life experience.
No required tests, classes, books, or interviews.
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No one is turned down.
Confidentiality assured.
CALL NOW to receive your diploma within days!!!
1-602-230-4252
Call 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, including Sundays and holidays.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>UNIVERSITY DIPLOMAS
Obtain a prosperous future, money earning power, and the admiration of all.
Diplomas from prestigious non-accredited universities based on your present knowledge and life experience.
No required tests, classes, books, or interviews.
Bachelors, masters, MBA, and doctorate (PhD) diplomas available in the field of your choice.
No one is turned down.
Confidentiality assured.
CALL NOW to receive your diploma within days!!!
1-602-230-4252
Call 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, including Sundays and holidays.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
-
Kevin Mackie
- Posts: 671
- Joined: Wed Sep 16, 1998 6:01 am
Rank and Titles
George, Sounds great. What's the country code for the RyuKyu Islands?
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Rank and Titles
Kevin
You are very, very naughty. I (snicker, snicker) am not laughing (snicker, snicker), sir!
George
I checked the number out. Indeed an answering machine left me a message about how to get further information. Amazing! And yes, I know what you are thinking.
And I respectfully disagree. Check out the quote - it says it all. Non-accredited universities? If the process *****, the outcome will likely ******.
- Bill
You are very, very naughty. I (snicker, snicker) am not laughing (snicker, snicker), sir!
George
I checked the number out. Indeed an answering machine left me a message about how to get further information. Amazing! And yes, I know what you are thinking.
And I respectfully disagree. Check out the quote - it says it all. Non-accredited universities? If the process *****, the outcome will likely ******.
- Bill
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Rank and Titles
Van
Like you, I occasionally make a shocking statement to make a point. Both J.D. and I immediately picked up on the hidden disclaimer that the majority of the population would never see. If they did, then these P.T. Barnum types would never make any money. What J.D. says is true. Look in the back of girlie magazines and you will see advertisements for "amazing placebo pills" that will enhance your sexual prowess. Since most of the pimple-faced idiots reading these magazines don't know what "placebo" means, they will send off their teen dollars to buy some of this stuff so that they can wow some awesome chick of the likes of what they see in the centerfold with their unspeakable abilities. Yea....in their wet dreams.
In the advertisement above, the guy comes out and says "prestigious non-accredited universities". And so who would seek such validation? Anyone stupid enough to miss something staring them in the face. That should tell you something about that process. That should tell you something about the value of these diplomas - something equivalent to the "diplomas" I have on a roll next to my porcelin throne. Folks who deserve any of the degrees mentioned would see right through this advertisement. And some who are stupid enough to be suckered in by this process may feel great about what they got. They will never "get it".
Finis origine pendet - the end depends on the beginning. That is one of the two quotes on the seal of my prep school alma mater. What does it mean to be "accredited"? Well it means that someone bothered to sit down and define what the process was that would aid individuals in seeking a desired outcome. An independent agency of some sort defines what universities must do to be accredited. Without those standards, the degrees these institutions issue would have no value. Without a process that evidence has shown is likely to lead to a positive outcome, the universities will be producing graduates that can't do the work that industry needs to have done.
In my business - health insurance - there is a nonprofit agency (National Committee for Quality Assurance or NCQA) that defines what HMOs should do to be accredited. Only 30% of those plans that apply receive full accreditation. GOOOD! The full accreditation now has value both to the consumer and to the quality companies that compete in the marketplace. A similar somewhat less stringent process occurs for hospitals under the JCAHO (Joint Commission...). It's nice to know that when you are unconscious and heading to an emergency room, that you will receive a certain minimum level of care. Believe me, we should never take that for granted. I've been to Russia and toured their facilities. I'm thankful to be an American.
So....in the beginning there was Kanbun and Shushiwa. And then Kanbun taught. And then Kanbun's students taught. And then I assume there was some desire to achieve "respectability" in the Okinawan martial arts community. So a process was started, and Uechi Kanei was the glue that held much of that together. And then he passed on, and we witnessed good men behaving like children on both sides of the earth. The very process that we took for granted disappeared. In the scrambling for "converts", rank was given as reward for allegience to specific organization. So....now what does the rank mean?
And now, we have one or maybe a handful of people in each of the various organizations that used to be Uechi ryu making decisions about who should be promoted and who shouldn't. Where are the rules? Where is the process? Let's say I'm a talented, hard working instructor and I need autonomy to create a strong organization that will produce many future leaders for the style. What do I need to do to gain the rank necessary to achieve my end? The rules should be clear, written, and followed. It should not be at the whim of an individual or a set of individuals who "know better". Someone knows better? Bull****! Why? Because their skin is the right color? That's racist. Because they were born into the "right" family (and I'm not speaking of just one)? I've despised the British royal family all along (and sometimes feel in the minority). To me, Princess Di was just another blonde bimbo who married money and had sex with pretty boys at the British taxpayer's expense. And I think no better of Charles. Why should I kiss anybody else's rear who didn't earn it? And why should I respect certificates that are given out with no deference to process that defines what individuals did to earn that certification?
The whole think sickens me. I was talking to Raffi the other day about wanting to send certificates back to George. I earned my ranks. I paid for it with time in the gym, students who now teach, and sacrifices that cost me dearly. I feel good about what I did. But I no longer feel good about those pieces of paper. Yes, I want to test again one day. I want to do it because it gives me a goal to work for, and people to share it with. But no, I don't give a damn about a piece of paper that represents nothing.
But don't ask me what I really think.
Sorry everyone. I think I'm gonna kick the &*$%# out of the bag tonight.
- Bill
Like you, I occasionally make a shocking statement to make a point. Both J.D. and I immediately picked up on the hidden disclaimer that the majority of the population would never see. If they did, then these P.T. Barnum types would never make any money. What J.D. says is true. Look in the back of girlie magazines and you will see advertisements for "amazing placebo pills" that will enhance your sexual prowess. Since most of the pimple-faced idiots reading these magazines don't know what "placebo" means, they will send off their teen dollars to buy some of this stuff so that they can wow some awesome chick of the likes of what they see in the centerfold with their unspeakable abilities. Yea....in their wet dreams.
In the advertisement above, the guy comes out and says "prestigious non-accredited universities". And so who would seek such validation? Anyone stupid enough to miss something staring them in the face. That should tell you something about that process. That should tell you something about the value of these diplomas - something equivalent to the "diplomas" I have on a roll next to my porcelin throne. Folks who deserve any of the degrees mentioned would see right through this advertisement. And some who are stupid enough to be suckered in by this process may feel great about what they got. They will never "get it".
Finis origine pendet - the end depends on the beginning. That is one of the two quotes on the seal of my prep school alma mater. What does it mean to be "accredited"? Well it means that someone bothered to sit down and define what the process was that would aid individuals in seeking a desired outcome. An independent agency of some sort defines what universities must do to be accredited. Without those standards, the degrees these institutions issue would have no value. Without a process that evidence has shown is likely to lead to a positive outcome, the universities will be producing graduates that can't do the work that industry needs to have done.
In my business - health insurance - there is a nonprofit agency (National Committee for Quality Assurance or NCQA) that defines what HMOs should do to be accredited. Only 30% of those plans that apply receive full accreditation. GOOOD! The full accreditation now has value both to the consumer and to the quality companies that compete in the marketplace. A similar somewhat less stringent process occurs for hospitals under the JCAHO (Joint Commission...). It's nice to know that when you are unconscious and heading to an emergency room, that you will receive a certain minimum level of care. Believe me, we should never take that for granted. I've been to Russia and toured their facilities. I'm thankful to be an American.
So....in the beginning there was Kanbun and Shushiwa. And then Kanbun taught. And then Kanbun's students taught. And then I assume there was some desire to achieve "respectability" in the Okinawan martial arts community. So a process was started, and Uechi Kanei was the glue that held much of that together. And then he passed on, and we witnessed good men behaving like children on both sides of the earth. The very process that we took for granted disappeared. In the scrambling for "converts", rank was given as reward for allegience to specific organization. So....now what does the rank mean?
And now, we have one or maybe a handful of people in each of the various organizations that used to be Uechi ryu making decisions about who should be promoted and who shouldn't. Where are the rules? Where is the process? Let's say I'm a talented, hard working instructor and I need autonomy to create a strong organization that will produce many future leaders for the style. What do I need to do to gain the rank necessary to achieve my end? The rules should be clear, written, and followed. It should not be at the whim of an individual or a set of individuals who "know better". Someone knows better? Bull****! Why? Because their skin is the right color? That's racist. Because they were born into the "right" family (and I'm not speaking of just one)? I've despised the British royal family all along (and sometimes feel in the minority). To me, Princess Di was just another blonde bimbo who married money and had sex with pretty boys at the British taxpayer's expense. And I think no better of Charles. Why should I kiss anybody else's rear who didn't earn it? And why should I respect certificates that are given out with no deference to process that defines what individuals did to earn that certification?
The whole think sickens me. I was talking to Raffi the other day about wanting to send certificates back to George. I earned my ranks. I paid for it with time in the gym, students who now teach, and sacrifices that cost me dearly. I feel good about what I did. But I no longer feel good about those pieces of paper. Yes, I want to test again one day. I want to do it because it gives me a goal to work for, and people to share it with. But no, I don't give a damn about a piece of paper that represents nothing.
But don't ask me what I really think.
Sorry everyone. I think I'm gonna kick the &*$%# out of the bag tonight.
- Bill
Rank and Titles
And to add to Glasheen Sensei's observations, I dare any and all who care to receive a Ph.D. from one of these "prestigious non-accredited universities" to attempt to get a job in academia!
Because of accreditation issues for the hiring college/university, all new hires are thoroughly screened - including the submission of transcripts - in order to prevent people with degrees such as these from getting hired.
Is there something similar in the martial arts? Perhaps it is time to begin a discussion on accrediting dojos and/or instructors!
------------------
D. Steven White
swhite@umassd.edu
Because of accreditation issues for the hiring college/university, all new hires are thoroughly screened - including the submission of transcripts - in order to prevent people with degrees such as these from getting hired.
Is there something similar in the martial arts? Perhaps it is time to begin a discussion on accrediting dojos and/or instructors!
------------------
D. Steven White
swhite@umassd.edu
Rank and Titles
JD-san,
Nice post! Not much disagreement except that if an aspiring rokudan and above “ *****” do you think that he would improve much after “ auditioning” for a week in Okinawa? And do you really think that he would be barred from testing after a week of “intensive training” on the Island, whether or not he still “*****”? How many 6th and above do you know who ever failed a test before an Okinawan board [American or Okinawan] regardless of skin color?
What defines “*****”?
Some people with time in grade may still “******” according to some “elitist” view!
What should we expect from Rokudan and above in the physical sense??
Are all Rokudan and above created equal??
Why have Rokudan ranks been given out through the mail over the years both by OKK and Soke? Why did the “people” accept them?
Why would Soke and the OKK make “special arrangements” for visiting Americans on the island and in the States? This implies some compromise of the standard …why would that be?
“"Hey, like we traveled all the way from Okinawa, you throw these guys at us, we do not want to seem rude."
Rude? Is that what we have come to? So what value do they attach to the rank they hand out because they want to be polite!
Some of you are saying rank is a joke; probably true when measured in the physical sense! How about this: most Rokudan and above would s*** their pants in a street fight! Yet they believe they are invincible!
I got news for you: Any of the newly made Shodan to Sandan in Nova Scotia this past weekend, would wipe the floor with most Rokudan and above as we know them! How is this for a shocking statement Bill-san?
And Bill, please tell me what you really think, I’d love to hear it!!
------------------
Van Canna
Nice post! Not much disagreement except that if an aspiring rokudan and above “ *****” do you think that he would improve much after “ auditioning” for a week in Okinawa? And do you really think that he would be barred from testing after a week of “intensive training” on the Island, whether or not he still “*****”? How many 6th and above do you know who ever failed a test before an Okinawan board [American or Okinawan] regardless of skin color?
What defines “*****”?
Some people with time in grade may still “******” according to some “elitist” view!
What should we expect from Rokudan and above in the physical sense??
Are all Rokudan and above created equal??
Why have Rokudan ranks been given out through the mail over the years both by OKK and Soke? Why did the “people” accept them?
Why would Soke and the OKK make “special arrangements” for visiting Americans on the island and in the States? This implies some compromise of the standard …why would that be?
“"Hey, like we traveled all the way from Okinawa, you throw these guys at us, we do not want to seem rude."
Rude? Is that what we have come to? So what value do they attach to the rank they hand out because they want to be polite!
Some of you are saying rank is a joke; probably true when measured in the physical sense! How about this: most Rokudan and above would s*** their pants in a street fight! Yet they believe they are invincible!
I got news for you: Any of the newly made Shodan to Sandan in Nova Scotia this past weekend, would wipe the floor with most Rokudan and above as we know them! How is this for a shocking statement Bill-san?
And Bill, please tell me what you really think, I’d love to hear it!!
------------------
Van Canna
Rank and Titles
If you will consider a non-Ueichi “junior member” to make an observation, this is a topic I’ve been thinking on for over 20 years, what is the answer for rank, titles and or accreditation in our Modern Martial Arts.
I do not believe the ‘Japanese’ approach to rank and organization provides us with the best answer to structure our arts.
This groups argument(s) so far has been a good analysis of the problems, especially in a society not particularity ordered by ‘rank’ structure.
Likewise I do not believe the Secondary School/University Teacher Certification/Accreditation provides us with the best answer either. A distant topic in my life at best, but as I see it a young person goes to University and obtains Teacher Certification and eventual employment in a Primary or Secondary School system. They are then in a community which continues to mold,constrain, guide and influence their ongoing development.
We’re a long ways from the days when that person would go forth and establish a school and run it on their own cognizance after College or University.
But in the Martial Arts is commonly accepted that a series of tests and subsequent rank are sufficient authorization to run a ‘school’ on one’s own, without the entire on-going direct involvement of a larger community. Is this not the model which describes the source of the current problems?
I would suggest the simple knowledge of movement, history and application of technique is not sufficient to develop quality instruction.
Running one’s own school is a time consuming activity. The activity precludes the direct availability of senior members in the day to day development of an instructor, over the long haul. This seems to me the major difference between the ‘educational’ setting. A difference which I also believe is the source of many of the current problems.
Instructors are truly on their own to develop or not, increase their capabilities or not, associate or not with their prior community, and still remain ‘instructors’.
If there truly is a solvable solution, my faith would be only in the earlier model, that of Okinawa prior to 1900. Where potential instructors would have spent decades with their seniors before the community would have accepted them as an instructor.
The fact that I and many others began teaching in other circumstances (such as after obtaining their Black Belt) does not mean that is the optimum future for the Martial Arts. I believe we need a long maturing process before answer(s) are working, something the few decades of growth and expansion in the USA haven’t provided us.
My own humble answer is that without 15 or 20 years of direct instruction and development towards instructorship, one should not be qualified to run a program, and this is the model I’m using for my own Dan development programs. Is this the best answer, I’m not sure, but at least I feel confident any person I qualify as an instructor, I’ve seen enough of their technique, character and personal development to believe they can act in the best interests of those arts we share.
Victor Smith Bushi No Te Isshinryu
I do not believe the ‘Japanese’ approach to rank and organization provides us with the best answer to structure our arts.
This groups argument(s) so far has been a good analysis of the problems, especially in a society not particularity ordered by ‘rank’ structure.
Likewise I do not believe the Secondary School/University Teacher Certification/Accreditation provides us with the best answer either. A distant topic in my life at best, but as I see it a young person goes to University and obtains Teacher Certification and eventual employment in a Primary or Secondary School system. They are then in a community which continues to mold,constrain, guide and influence their ongoing development.
We’re a long ways from the days when that person would go forth and establish a school and run it on their own cognizance after College or University.
But in the Martial Arts is commonly accepted that a series of tests and subsequent rank are sufficient authorization to run a ‘school’ on one’s own, without the entire on-going direct involvement of a larger community. Is this not the model which describes the source of the current problems?
I would suggest the simple knowledge of movement, history and application of technique is not sufficient to develop quality instruction.
Running one’s own school is a time consuming activity. The activity precludes the direct availability of senior members in the day to day development of an instructor, over the long haul. This seems to me the major difference between the ‘educational’ setting. A difference which I also believe is the source of many of the current problems.
Instructors are truly on their own to develop or not, increase their capabilities or not, associate or not with their prior community, and still remain ‘instructors’.
If there truly is a solvable solution, my faith would be only in the earlier model, that of Okinawa prior to 1900. Where potential instructors would have spent decades with their seniors before the community would have accepted them as an instructor.
The fact that I and many others began teaching in other circumstances (such as after obtaining their Black Belt) does not mean that is the optimum future for the Martial Arts. I believe we need a long maturing process before answer(s) are working, something the few decades of growth and expansion in the USA haven’t provided us.
My own humble answer is that without 15 or 20 years of direct instruction and development towards instructorship, one should not be qualified to run a program, and this is the model I’m using for my own Dan development programs. Is this the best answer, I’m not sure, but at least I feel confident any person I qualify as an instructor, I’ve seen enough of their technique, character and personal development to believe they can act in the best interests of those arts we share.
Victor Smith Bushi No Te Isshinryu
-
lori macleod-doyle
- Posts: 232
- Joined: Tue Aug 03, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: lr.sackville n.s. canada
Rank and Titles
Good afternoon,
As a member of the group who was tested this past week-end I am greatly flattered by the comments made by Sensei Canna.
We take our rank quite seriously here. Not to say that rank is all that is important to us but we have been taught from day one that if the time and effort are not put in we will not be promoted. Just showing up does not entitle a student to move through the ranks. You know from day one,that to receive a new rank or belt you better be prepared to work for it.
Why would anyone want to wear a belt they had not earned? When attending a camp or seminar,or visiting another do-jo, would that person not feel they were less than adequite when working with people who were properly trained for their rank? I would be embarassed to stand in a group of students and instructors and not have the knowledge or abilities my rank should show.
I would rather stay longer at a lower rank than to embarrass myself and my Sensei.
And to ask to be tested! That is something that is just not done. The instructor is the only one who decides who is ready and when they are ready.They have the knowledge and the experience.Is that not the reason they are the teachers and we are the students?
Respectfully,
Lori M-D
As a member of the group who was tested this past week-end I am greatly flattered by the comments made by Sensei Canna.
We take our rank quite seriously here. Not to say that rank is all that is important to us but we have been taught from day one that if the time and effort are not put in we will not be promoted. Just showing up does not entitle a student to move through the ranks. You know from day one,that to receive a new rank or belt you better be prepared to work for it.
Why would anyone want to wear a belt they had not earned? When attending a camp or seminar,or visiting another do-jo, would that person not feel they were less than adequite when working with people who were properly trained for their rank? I would be embarassed to stand in a group of students and instructors and not have the knowledge or abilities my rank should show.
I would rather stay longer at a lower rank than to embarrass myself and my Sensei.
And to ask to be tested! That is something that is just not done. The instructor is the only one who decides who is ready and when they are ready.They have the knowledge and the experience.Is that not the reason they are the teachers and we are the students?
Respectfully,
Lori M-D
Rank and Titles
Hello Doctor X,
Does anybody know the politics of Isshinryu?
As a system it's extremely splintered, Over a dozen 10th Dan Practioners I guess, although I do not align with any of them. In my own case, Isshinryu is what I practice not what I am.
But what I've read today, reminds me of most organizations and the issues of rank I've seen.
People tend to show up formally when they want their students to be tested, or when they want to be considered for testing. A situation I've seen in many organizations, including Chinese style groups with the USA.
I haven't seen a way to 'SOLVE' the problems. I'm just trying to trust the older pre 1900 model to not contribute to the morass myself.
My overall opinion of Ueichi Ryu, is your group seems to strive towards the highest caliber of any group I've seen. But it seems to me, all of us, regardless of system, seem to be dancing around the same problems.
------------------
Victor Smith
Does anybody know the politics of Isshinryu?
As a system it's extremely splintered, Over a dozen 10th Dan Practioners I guess, although I do not align with any of them. In my own case, Isshinryu is what I practice not what I am.
But what I've read today, reminds me of most organizations and the issues of rank I've seen.
People tend to show up formally when they want their students to be tested, or when they want to be considered for testing. A situation I've seen in many organizations, including Chinese style groups with the USA.
I haven't seen a way to 'SOLVE' the problems. I'm just trying to trust the older pre 1900 model to not contribute to the morass myself.
My overall opinion of Ueichi Ryu, is your group seems to strive towards the highest caliber of any group I've seen. But it seems to me, all of us, regardless of system, seem to be dancing around the same problems.
------------------
Victor Smith
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Rank and Titles
J.D.
Thank you, thank you. I'm glad somebody is out there who knows what I meant instead of what I did. Boy did I confuse poor Phils. My fault.
Van-san and I were whipping ourselves up into a debating frenzy, and I go and put this stormy reply off someplace else. Sigh. Well hopefully I haven't completely killed the moment. Here is what I posted. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Van
Your statement about the exceptional quality of the dojo in Nova Scotia is consistent with my gut feelings, based on private conversations I have had with dojo members. Finis origine pendet. I am happy you said what you did. Let it inspire us all to work harder.
A few random comments and observations:
* If I am attacked and I have a less-than-satisfactory performance, will my attacker give me consideration for effort, time-in-grade, etc.? Not to take that to an extreme, but you get the point.
* If I ever test again and I screw up one of the Big Three (tm) kata, will the board have the guts to fail me? They'd better! The standards are much more important than my feelings. And even a raging Art Rabesa couldn't make me feel the way one former graduate examination committee made me feel on an oral test I wasn't properly prepared for. I can still remember Dr. T. yelling at me so loud that his face was red and the veins were popping out of his neck. And I deserved it. And I came back. Go ahead...make my day!
* Will any OKK, Kenyukai, or other organization members sit on a SOKE test board (or vice versa) in any region other than our own? If not, why?
* When are we getting written standards for rank and testing that are agreed upon from bottom to top? And what are we going to do if agreement can't be reached at all levels? And what will be done if these standards are ever not adhered to? And if we aren't going to do anything, then why are we whining?
* How often do you see people from country A inviting people from country B to sit in on a dan test board or conduct seminars? Write your answers down. Good. Now tell me where you see the greatest growth in quality in the martial arts today. What does that tell you about the ethnic isolationists?
* Three cheers for Mary's spanking new shodan!
- Bill<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> P.S. Congratulations to the Nova Scotia dojo for a fine perfomance!!
Thank you, thank you. I'm glad somebody is out there who knows what I meant instead of what I did. Boy did I confuse poor Phils. My fault.
Van-san and I were whipping ourselves up into a debating frenzy, and I go and put this stormy reply off someplace else. Sigh. Well hopefully I haven't completely killed the moment. Here is what I posted. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Van
Your statement about the exceptional quality of the dojo in Nova Scotia is consistent with my gut feelings, based on private conversations I have had with dojo members. Finis origine pendet. I am happy you said what you did. Let it inspire us all to work harder.
A few random comments and observations:
* If I am attacked and I have a less-than-satisfactory performance, will my attacker give me consideration for effort, time-in-grade, etc.? Not to take that to an extreme, but you get the point.
* If I ever test again and I screw up one of the Big Three (tm) kata, will the board have the guts to fail me? They'd better! The standards are much more important than my feelings. And even a raging Art Rabesa couldn't make me feel the way one former graduate examination committee made me feel on an oral test I wasn't properly prepared for. I can still remember Dr. T. yelling at me so loud that his face was red and the veins were popping out of his neck. And I deserved it. And I came back. Go ahead...make my day!
* Will any OKK, Kenyukai, or other organization members sit on a SOKE test board (or vice versa) in any region other than our own? If not, why?
* When are we getting written standards for rank and testing that are agreed upon from bottom to top? And what are we going to do if agreement can't be reached at all levels? And what will be done if these standards are ever not adhered to? And if we aren't going to do anything, then why are we whining?
* How often do you see people from country A inviting people from country B to sit in on a dan test board or conduct seminars? Write your answers down. Good. Now tell me where you see the greatest growth in quality in the martial arts today. What does that tell you about the ethnic isolationists?
* Three cheers for Mary's spanking new shodan!
- Bill<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> P.S. Congratulations to the Nova Scotia dojo for a fine perfomance!!
Rank and Titles
I'd ask the same questions in this forum, or be more direct and rephrase:
For those supporting the status quo, that's fine, why not take a stand, share your thinking, state your arguments or your reasoning, particularly if an alternate suggestion is not a good one. Ratio et consilium propriae ducis artes.
Otherwise, it's whining or worse.
[This message has been edited by Phils (edited 11-18-99).]
For those supporting the status quo, that's fine, why not take a stand, share your thinking, state your arguments or your reasoning, particularly if an alternate suggestion is not a good one. Ratio et consilium propriae ducis artes.
Otherwise, it's whining or worse.
[This message has been edited by Phils (edited 11-18-99).]
