I really had no intention of ever studying Uechi ryu. I had come fresh from a hard Japanese style, taught by a talented maniac. While I wasn't a master, I knew what a good karateka looked like.
I passed on the first martial arts opportunity I was exposed to at UVa. It was a kind of Korean McKarate which was warmed-over stuff from other styles - all done pretty badly. Material-wise, it was similar to what I had just been studying. But I began to wonder when I (a measly brown belt) dusted one of their folks in a class sparring match. The real clincher was when I sat and watched a two-person routine while another newcomer sitting beside me sang "M-I-C....K-E-Y....M-O-U-S-Eeee...". Yes, I knew this wasn't for me.
And then several months later this fellow (Rad Smith) started a school of this strange style called Uechi Ryu. Much of what he told me was anathema to what I was taught. Half soft? Would I retain my...er...orientation?? But there was something about Rad - smart, fast as hell, controlled but definitely had a mean streak, and...well...he could kick my butt. The heck with the strange style, I'm gonna let him bounce me around the dojo for a few years. Maybe I'll learn something.
And I did!
Recently someone approached me with a very generous offer. I could get a few people into a seminar - that was relatively small - to study material that I find interesting. But.....but.... I'd rather eat glass and listen to Ricky Martin than have to endure listening to this self-absorbed windbag who.... I'd rather stay "ignorant." And anyhows, there are plenty of others up and/or across the line I could study from. So...I passed - without a second thought.
Sometimes I wonder how much our (in the general sense) decisions about training are dictated by what is being taught, vs. who is teaching it.
- Bill
[This message has been edited by Bill Glasheen (edited 12-26-99).]
Messenger vs. the Message
Moderator: Available
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Messenger vs. the Message
Sensei Glasheen wrote:
I really had no intention of ever studying Uechi ryu. I had come fresh from a hard Japanese style, taught by a talented maniac. While I wasn't a master, I knew what a good karateka looked like.
I passed on the first martial arts opportunity I was exposed to at UVa. It was a kind of Korean McKarate which was warmed-over stuff from other styles - all done pretty badly. Material-wise, it was similar to what I had just been studying. But I began to wonder when I (a measly brown belt) dusted one of their folks in a class sparring match. The real clincher was when I sat and watched a two-person routine while another newcomer sitting beside me sang "M-I-C....K-E-Y....M-O-U-S-Eeee...". Yes, I knew this wasn't for me.
And then several months later this fellow (Rad Smith) started a school of this strange style called Uechi Ryu. Much of what he told me was anathema to what I was taught. Half soft? Would I retain my...er...orientation?? But there was something about Rad - smart, fast as hell, controlled but definitely had a mean streak, and...well...he could kick my butt. The heck with the strange style, I'm gonna let him bounce me around the dojo for a few years. Maybe I'll learn something.
And I did!
Recently someone approached me with a very generous offer. I could get a few people into a seminar - that was relatively small - to study material that I find interesting. But.....but.... I'd rather eat glass and listen to Ricky Martin than have to endure listening to this self-absorbed windbag who.... I'd rather stay "ignorant." And anyhows, there are plenty of others up and/or across the line I could study from. So...I passed - without a second thought.
Sometimes I wonder how much our (in the general sense) decisions about training are dictated by what is being taught, vs. who is teaching it.
(end of quote)
Hi Sensei,
I'm not sure what you're asking (in case I'm making an error in my reply) but I don't pay any attention to personality when I want to study something. If I went by personality I'd probably get out of martial arts. There are far too many egomaniacs and most of them think they are the most humble guys in the world. They never seem to see themselves but they're always quick to imply the other guy is an #####. I just don't get involved. It's a trap. If it's something you want to learn, go for it. If not, why even comment in a public post?
Yours in the arts,
Goldberg
I really had no intention of ever studying Uechi ryu. I had come fresh from a hard Japanese style, taught by a talented maniac. While I wasn't a master, I knew what a good karateka looked like.
I passed on the first martial arts opportunity I was exposed to at UVa. It was a kind of Korean McKarate which was warmed-over stuff from other styles - all done pretty badly. Material-wise, it was similar to what I had just been studying. But I began to wonder when I (a measly brown belt) dusted one of their folks in a class sparring match. The real clincher was when I sat and watched a two-person routine while another newcomer sitting beside me sang "M-I-C....K-E-Y....M-O-U-S-Eeee...". Yes, I knew this wasn't for me.
And then several months later this fellow (Rad Smith) started a school of this strange style called Uechi Ryu. Much of what he told me was anathema to what I was taught. Half soft? Would I retain my...er...orientation?? But there was something about Rad - smart, fast as hell, controlled but definitely had a mean streak, and...well...he could kick my butt. The heck with the strange style, I'm gonna let him bounce me around the dojo for a few years. Maybe I'll learn something.
And I did!
Recently someone approached me with a very generous offer. I could get a few people into a seminar - that was relatively small - to study material that I find interesting. But.....but.... I'd rather eat glass and listen to Ricky Martin than have to endure listening to this self-absorbed windbag who.... I'd rather stay "ignorant." And anyhows, there are plenty of others up and/or across the line I could study from. So...I passed - without a second thought.
Sometimes I wonder how much our (in the general sense) decisions about training are dictated by what is being taught, vs. who is teaching it.
(end of quote)
Hi Sensei,
I'm not sure what you're asking (in case I'm making an error in my reply) but I don't pay any attention to personality when I want to study something. If I went by personality I'd probably get out of martial arts. There are far too many egomaniacs and most of them think they are the most humble guys in the world. They never seem to see themselves but they're always quick to imply the other guy is an #####. I just don't get involved. It's a trap. If it's something you want to learn, go for it. If not, why even comment in a public post?
Yours in the arts,
Goldberg
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Messenger vs. the Message
Goldberg
Just some editorial details first... No need to quote the whole message, as if it were an e-mail exchange. The original is still there. Avoiding whole passage quotes keeps the reading and flow better, and the thread tidy.
- The moderator
And now for the content... I find your reaction interesting. Are you a "glass half empty" kind of person? Frankly all the negatives were a series of....well...some inside humor. It's a shame I left such a negative impression. The whole point of the post seems to have been missed.
I have been blessed by exposure to some really, really fine people. In fact, the caibre of said people was/is such that they caused me to study arts I never would have considered getting involved with in the first place. To make my point, I contrasted an example of such a positive experience with the negative experiences of a few who had information in arts I might have studied, except for the fact that I would have had to compromise my principles to engage with them. No, Ferguson, I'm not talking about your garden variety egomaniac. The martial arts is full of them; it's frankly part of the fun of it all. I've never been offended by colorful personalities. In fact I'm highly entertained.
But many years ago I said that martial arts was like motorcycle riding - in them you find the very best and the very worst of humanity. My personal experiences through a number of arts has been dictated somewhat by what I wanted to study, but also largely by the serendipity that comes from being exposed to some very fine people.
- Bill
Just some editorial details first... No need to quote the whole message, as if it were an e-mail exchange. The original is still there. Avoiding whole passage quotes keeps the reading and flow better, and the thread tidy.
- The moderator
And now for the content... I find your reaction interesting. Are you a "glass half empty" kind of person? Frankly all the negatives were a series of....well...some inside humor. It's a shame I left such a negative impression. The whole point of the post seems to have been missed.
I have been blessed by exposure to some really, really fine people. In fact, the caibre of said people was/is such that they caused me to study arts I never would have considered getting involved with in the first place. To make my point, I contrasted an example of such a positive experience with the negative experiences of a few who had information in arts I might have studied, except for the fact that I would have had to compromise my principles to engage with them. No, Ferguson, I'm not talking about your garden variety egomaniac. The martial arts is full of them; it's frankly part of the fun of it all. I've never been offended by colorful personalities. In fact I'm highly entertained.
But many years ago I said that martial arts was like motorcycle riding - in them you find the very best and the very worst of humanity. My personal experiences through a number of arts has been dictated somewhat by what I wanted to study, but also largely by the serendipity that comes from being exposed to some very fine people.
- Bill
Messenger vs. the Message
Dear Sensei Glasheen:
Sorry about copying too much of the previous message. I don't post a lot although I do read several different karate and BJJ, etc. lists. I wasn't sure how to do it on this list. I mostly just lurk and I've only been on this list a few months off and on reading and looking in the archives for grappling related posts, etc. My karate styles BTW have mostly been Shorin-ryu and Goju although I spent about 8 months doing Uechi Ryu one time.
I'm not sure what a "glass half empty" refers to so I assume it is some sort of 'in' phrase that I missed out on. Sorry. I'm probably a little thick.
And again I have to say sorry for not catching on that you were not entirely serious. It's what I get for being a newbie, I guess. I thought you had something serious you were saying about someone you thought was an egomaniac (someone on this list?). I was only trying to say that if something is worth learning then the personality shouldn't be that much of a problem for a little while, eh? Besides, I notice on this list that it seems acceptable for people to get off onto a lot of personal talk about themselves, their schools, their family, and etc., where you don't often see that on a lot of the other lists. So I thought I was perhaps seeing some rivalry from you and I meant only good intentions by trying to put the salve on perhaps bruised egos. My mistake. I'll go back to lurking. I feel like an idiot.
Yours in the arts,
Goldberg
Sorry about copying too much of the previous message. I don't post a lot although I do read several different karate and BJJ, etc. lists. I wasn't sure how to do it on this list. I mostly just lurk and I've only been on this list a few months off and on reading and looking in the archives for grappling related posts, etc. My karate styles BTW have mostly been Shorin-ryu and Goju although I spent about 8 months doing Uechi Ryu one time.
I'm not sure what a "glass half empty" refers to so I assume it is some sort of 'in' phrase that I missed out on. Sorry. I'm probably a little thick.
And again I have to say sorry for not catching on that you were not entirely serious. It's what I get for being a newbie, I guess. I thought you had something serious you were saying about someone you thought was an egomaniac (someone on this list?). I was only trying to say that if something is worth learning then the personality shouldn't be that much of a problem for a little while, eh? Besides, I notice on this list that it seems acceptable for people to get off onto a lot of personal talk about themselves, their schools, their family, and etc., where you don't often see that on a lot of the other lists. So I thought I was perhaps seeing some rivalry from you and I meant only good intentions by trying to put the salve on perhaps bruised egos. My mistake. I'll go back to lurking. I feel like an idiot.
Yours in the arts,
Goldberg
-
gmattson
- Site Admin
- Posts: 6069
- Joined: Wed Sep 16, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: Lake Mary, Florida
- Contact:
Messenger vs. the Message
Uechi-ryu is a family style. However, we consider our Internet family to be anyone who has something interesting to say, an interesting way to say it and most importantly, a sense of humor. New people tend to misunderstand some of us and we are partly at fault. In Bill's post, he thinks everyone understands his specific reference, when in fact many didn't. But those of us who know Bill, realize the point he was trying to make. (A lot like family members who can decipher comments or finish sentences before the speaker does.)
The only way we can get to know you and the other people who read but don't post, is for you to 'get involved'. Each of us have limitations in the way we communicate with words. The nice thing about these forums is that if we don't understand something, we ask. In the give and take that follows, we can get to know you and be able to appreciate your knowledge and experiences.
Thats how our family grows.
------------------
GEM
The only way we can get to know you and the other people who read but don't post, is for you to 'get involved'. Each of us have limitations in the way we communicate with words. The nice thing about these forums is that if we don't understand something, we ask. In the give and take that follows, we can get to know you and be able to appreciate your knowledge and experiences.
Thats how our family grows.
------------------
GEM
Messenger vs. the Message
Dear Sensei Mattson,
It would be rude of me to not say thanks for your reply since you are the head of this organization. Many thanks for your thoughts. I can appreciate that your organization is a family style and I can see many benefits to those sorts of relationships.
You hit it right on the head that I missed (even worse than I thought, apparently) what Sensei Glasheen meant. My apologies. I took him literally. And I was only doing what I thought was helpful. If anything your last words which were "Each of us have limitations in the way we communicate with words. The nice thing about these forums is that if we don't understand something, we ask. In the give and take that follows, we can get to know you and be able to appreciate your knowledge and experiences.
Thats how our family grows." that's all I was recommending to Sensei Glasheen. If he wanted to learn something he should just leave the emotion and "egomaniac" worries at home. Just study karate and don't worry about the other rivalries and etc., in a "family". If it was someone outside the "family" then as you noted there seems to be some easy misunderstandings in a family and non-family way.
Anyway, thanks again for the comments. Now I'm seriously back to lurking on this list and the number of others I'm on.
Yours in the arts,
Goldberg
It would be rude of me to not say thanks for your reply since you are the head of this organization. Many thanks for your thoughts. I can appreciate that your organization is a family style and I can see many benefits to those sorts of relationships.
You hit it right on the head that I missed (even worse than I thought, apparently) what Sensei Glasheen meant. My apologies. I took him literally. And I was only doing what I thought was helpful. If anything your last words which were "Each of us have limitations in the way we communicate with words. The nice thing about these forums is that if we don't understand something, we ask. In the give and take that follows, we can get to know you and be able to appreciate your knowledge and experiences.
Thats how our family grows." that's all I was recommending to Sensei Glasheen. If he wanted to learn something he should just leave the emotion and "egomaniac" worries at home. Just study karate and don't worry about the other rivalries and etc., in a "family". If it was someone outside the "family" then as you noted there seems to be some easy misunderstandings in a family and non-family way.
Anyway, thanks again for the comments. Now I'm seriously back to lurking on this list and the number of others I'm on.
Yours in the arts,
Goldberg
Messenger vs. the Message
And as to the "glass half-empty" comment, Goldberg...
It's a comment on viewpoint, optimism v. pessimism. "Some people look at a half-glass of water and see a glass half-full (optimists!)."
"Some people look at a half-glass of water and see the glass half-empty (pessimists!)."
My engineer friends look at a half-glass of water and see a glass designed twice as large as needed for its function.
And J. D. looks at a half-glass of water and calls Randi to find out what the trick is!
Don't lurk, friend; join in. And don't worry about being thought an idiot. We could tell you about..., no, I'm not going there.
Student
[This message has been edited by student (edited 12-27-99).]
It's a comment on viewpoint, optimism v. pessimism. "Some people look at a half-glass of water and see a glass half-full (optimists!)."
"Some people look at a half-glass of water and see the glass half-empty (pessimists!)."
My engineer friends look at a half-glass of water and see a glass designed twice as large as needed for its function.
And J. D. looks at a half-glass of water and calls Randi to find out what the trick is!
Don't lurk, friend; join in. And don't worry about being thought an idiot. We could tell you about..., no, I'm not going there.
Student
[This message has been edited by student (edited 12-27-99).]
-
Bill Stockey
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Mon Oct 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Arlington,VA
- Contact:
Messenger vs. the Message
All I have known Bill for long time(from his Shorin Ken days) and can tell you there isnt a deeper thinker about budo. He examines the art from the mat and the book. bunburyodo fits him to a tee. back to lurking
[This message has been edited by Bill Stockey (edited 12-27-99).]
[This message has been edited by Bill Stockey (edited 12-27-99).]
Messenger vs. the Message
Thanks to all of you for contributing. If I had known that my attempt to be helpful was me intruding into a lot of "family" things and secrets where you have to be part of the group to understand, I wouldn't have been so presumptuous.
Thanks for the heads-up on the half glass of water, Student. I probably just see a half glass of water and don't attach much to it. Perhaps I'll learn to be more poetic. <g>
There seems to be quite a tight knit group of you who are all friends here and its nice to see such warmth for your schoolmates and brothers. I appreciate the thought and invitation to get to know everyone better, but please don't take offense if I keep looking around a bit before I get too cozy. It's just my way.
Yours in the arts,
Goldberg
Thanks for the heads-up on the half glass of water, Student. I probably just see a half glass of water and don't attach much to it. Perhaps I'll learn to be more poetic. <g>
There seems to be quite a tight knit group of you who are all friends here and its nice to see such warmth for your schoolmates and brothers. I appreciate the thought and invitation to get to know everyone better, but please don't take offense if I keep looking around a bit before I get too cozy. It's just my way.
Yours in the arts,
Goldberg
Messenger vs. the Message
What you have just seen, Goldberg, is an example of J. D.'s dirty wit.
Well, I'm at least half right....
student
[This message has been edited by student (edited 12-27-99).]
Well, I'm at least half right....
student
[This message has been edited by student (edited 12-27-99).]
-
Kevin Mackie
- Posts: 671
- Joined: Wed Sep 16, 1998 6:01 am
Messenger vs. the Message
Goldberg, you wrote..
"I thought you had something serious you were saying about someone you thought was an egomaniac (someone on this list?)."
Are you insinuating that there is an egomaniac on this forum?
See here, we here are all the very best that the Uechi and MA world has to offer, totally devoid of ANY character flaws.
The nerve!
Kevin
(just funnin' with ya)
welcome!
"I thought you had something serious you were saying about someone you thought was an egomaniac (someone on this list?)."
Are you insinuating that there is an egomaniac on this forum?
See here, we here are all the very best that the Uechi and MA world has to offer, totally devoid of ANY character flaws.
The nerve!
Kevin
(just funnin' with ya)
welcome!
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Messenger vs. the Message
Thanks, George.
Goldberg
You wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
It's especially hard when you don't want to name names. Actually I'm trying not to offend several parties in particular so as to avoid a flame war. Problem is, you talk in generalities and one ends up stirring up a collection of guilty consciences (Hey, I resemble that remark!) Next thing you know, you've offended your buddies while having protected the offensive party. But trust me - there is a darker element here. I haven't even begun to describe it, and I won't go there either.
Is there a lessen there? Probably, but then they are always learned with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight.
And me? I'm an idiot and proud of it! :-)
- Bill
Goldberg
You wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
Well...you should know that we all reserve the right to make idiots of ourselves. So I guess that makes you family :-) Actually, I see nothing wrong with what you have written per se. This is just a matter of us all dancing around an important topic that can be a little difficult to define.I feel like an idiot.
It's especially hard when you don't want to name names. Actually I'm trying not to offend several parties in particular so as to avoid a flame war. Problem is, you talk in generalities and one ends up stirring up a collection of guilty consciences (Hey, I resemble that remark!) Next thing you know, you've offended your buddies while having protected the offensive party. But trust me - there is a darker element here. I haven't even begun to describe it, and I won't go there either.
Is there a lessen there? Probably, but then they are always learned with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight.
And me? I'm an idiot and proud of it! :-)
- Bill
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Messenger vs. the Message
By the way, Goldberg, I started with Nippon Shorin Ken, and I have a nidan in Shorei Kai Goju ryu. So you see....I'm not going to let you get away with lurking. :-) I personally would value your comments.
- Bill
- Bill
Messenger vs. the Message
Okay, J.D.:
I was setting you up for that punchline, but your riposte scored first.
Touche.
Student
I was setting you up for that punchline, but your riposte scored first.
Touche.
Student
Messenger vs. the Message
Dear Sensei JD,
I keep coming back to this topic but I really don't have much more to say except something that caught my eye. BTW I don't know how to do some of the fance quotes that I'm seeing so bear with me. I admit to being an amateur. My attempt to put in the grin symbol with a "g" between 2 sharp pointy things never gets printed for some reason.
You wrote:
"However, everyone has their standards. The danger of an immoral teacher, of course, is that he will pass his immorality to his students or sully the Style. "Immoral" implies such crimes of character as racism, using student as worshipers/slave/sexual prey, and listening to country-western music. In Bill's case, he feels the schmegma spread by the ego-absorbed individual in question does not justify any great knowledge to which he pretends.
Now, with "great knowledge" I have to wonder if anyone has priveledged knowlege. Bill could always seek out the individual's teacher and learn from the source. I have yet to meet or hear of a person who has mastered an art to such an extent that he makes all others--including his teacher--obsolete and irrelevant. "
end of quote.
My point of view is to not even get into assigning who is evil or immoral, assuming it's not something like robbery, fraud, sex, and so on. Too often I see a couple of teachers who are sure each other is an immoral ##### and it's usually the pot calling the kettle black both ways. I'm not sure who is the "ego absorbed individual" in this case but I usually see that what most people hate is often a reflection in themselves that they don't like (grin symbol intended).
So back to my original statement. If it's worth learning and it's not an impossible situation (like sex or robbery)then it appears to me personally to be a waste of time to post something that is really just a vague showoff putdown. Let's just learn and practice and get away from the personal stuff. We all get too easily in these waste of time emotions, in my opinion. (another grin symbol intended).
Yours in the arts,
Goldberg
I keep coming back to this topic but I really don't have much more to say except something that caught my eye. BTW I don't know how to do some of the fance quotes that I'm seeing so bear with me. I admit to being an amateur. My attempt to put in the grin symbol with a "g" between 2 sharp pointy things never gets printed for some reason.
You wrote:
"However, everyone has their standards. The danger of an immoral teacher, of course, is that he will pass his immorality to his students or sully the Style. "Immoral" implies such crimes of character as racism, using student as worshipers/slave/sexual prey, and listening to country-western music. In Bill's case, he feels the schmegma spread by the ego-absorbed individual in question does not justify any great knowledge to which he pretends.
Now, with "great knowledge" I have to wonder if anyone has priveledged knowlege. Bill could always seek out the individual's teacher and learn from the source. I have yet to meet or hear of a person who has mastered an art to such an extent that he makes all others--including his teacher--obsolete and irrelevant. "
end of quote.
My point of view is to not even get into assigning who is evil or immoral, assuming it's not something like robbery, fraud, sex, and so on. Too often I see a couple of teachers who are sure each other is an immoral ##### and it's usually the pot calling the kettle black both ways. I'm not sure who is the "ego absorbed individual" in this case but I usually see that what most people hate is often a reflection in themselves that they don't like (grin symbol intended).
So back to my original statement. If it's worth learning and it's not an impossible situation (like sex or robbery)then it appears to me personally to be a waste of time to post something that is really just a vague showoff putdown. Let's just learn and practice and get away from the personal stuff. We all get too easily in these waste of time emotions, in my opinion. (another grin symbol intended).
Yours in the arts,
Goldberg
