traditional martial exercises

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SEAN C
Posts: 382
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 6:01 am

traditional martial exercises

Post by SEAN C »

All,

Many people in martial arts work out in ways that aren't specifically related to martial arts, along with their traditional practice. We might have a stretch routine, a strength routine or an aerobic workout, like running for instance. These are all valuable pursuits.

In this thread, maybe we could discuss different traditionally martial arts specific exercises (kata, chi kung, iron body, etc.) and see if we can relate them to modern health and fitness issues. I have a sneaking suspicion that alot of esoteric ideas in health/fitness that are considered new or modern can be found within the traditional methods. As I have only experienced a tiny fraction of what there is, I cannot confirm or deny this. I don't want to start an argument over which methods are better, but rather to discuss the ways that traditional martial exercises impact the body.

I'll start off with the eight pieces of brocade chi kung. If we ignore the controversial aspect of chi for the purposes of this discussion, we can see a few layers of training. These are only personal observations, and not meant to be the "expert's" all-inclusive findings.

1. toning of most of the muscles.

2. overall loosening of muscles, joints and tendons.

3. loosening and alignment of the spine.

4. training opposing muscles to relax to increase power and speed.

Has anyone found other benefits in this exercise?

What about health/fitness aspects of any other methods? Anyone with any ideas or opinions, please come forth! Personally if I hear of something interesting I'll do my best to investigate!

Your white belt in exercise,


5.

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sean
David Elkins
Posts: 1089
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 1999 6:01 am

traditional martial exercises

Post by David Elkins »

Dr.,

I understand from a very reliable source that it was Kanbun who inspired Joe Weider in a dream to get into the fitness game. I think he owned a deli at the time.

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Good Training,

David
Uechi Ryu West
SEAN C
Posts: 382
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 6:01 am

traditional martial exercises

Post by SEAN C »

Doctor of X,

I'm not knocking things such as weightlifting. Just want to discuss health/fitness aspects of traditional Chinese and Okinawan martial forms. I think there are different levels of benefit interwoven in many. Also I don't belong to a gym! Image

Anthony,

Thanks brother! Love it here.



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sean
Shelly King

traditional martial exercises

Post by Shelly King »

Sean

To play devil's advocate here...though not to risk sounding as if I agree with Dr. X...not sure if I could face myself if that happened Image....but from a historical point, weight training was very much a part of traditional training....though not always formally. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't most early MAs farmers. Men who were already "in shape" from doing hard manual labor including lifting heavy objects on a routine basis.

As for kata, I see benefits in body mechanics and isometric exercise for building strength.
SEAN C
Posts: 382
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 6:01 am

traditional martial exercises

Post by SEAN C »

Shelly,

Even though I consider myself on the good side of the force, I do occasionally find myself helpless in the face of the Devil's logic! (read Doctor X)
I agree with what you say, but was originally interested in hearing about various complimentary benefits inherent in the specifically martial forms or exercises that have come out of China, influenced from India/Tibet and spread to Okinawa, Japan and Korea.

Glasheen Sensei,

Thanks for the reply. Someday I will again have the benefit of a good Sanchin test. Until then...maybe what I call Chinese yoga!
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Bill Glasheen
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY

traditional martial exercises

Post by Bill Glasheen »

Sean

I happen to really like sanchin kata for my students because I find it is an indicator - and not necessarily a maker - of health, fitness, and technique. From it a good teacher can make recommendations to the student as to what kind of remedial work they need.

As an example, I was working just last Saturday with a former football player in his sanchin. He had a very bad case of what I call "hunchback sanchin." This relates to item 3 above in your list of health and wellness factors. The thoracic region of his back had a huge bulge, that got worse when he pulled down in sanchin. I helped him understand the flexibility and strength imbalance problems he had which made his stance look the way it did. I did my best to make him appreciate WHY he would be better served by resolving the posture and imbalance issues. I then made suggestions as to what he could do in the gym (and elsewhere) to correct that. Not 24 hours later, I saw him finishing a weight and stretching routine where I KNOW he must have been doing remedial work for his problem. Ten years from now, his spine will thank me.

I tend to be one of those folks who believes that folks in the past understood what the Platonic ideal was, and did the best they could with the resources they had to achieve it for themselves and their students. I think we can gain a lot when we understand what they knew, and add to it with the special capabilities we have at our disposal today.

- Bill
Gilbert MacIntyre
Posts: 191
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2000 6:01 am
Location: Sydney, NS, Canada

traditional martial exercises

Post by Gilbert MacIntyre »

Sean:
I am lucky enough to have a life style that allows me to workout around six to eight hours a day. Uechi being my main vice, it seems to get special attention. However I do train in other ways. As for the benifits of training in the martial arts they are numerous. I would sum them up by saying my body is reliable. When I want to get up from a chair I don't take half the room to straighten up. If I want to drop to the floor, no problem. Strong fingers, legs,arms,shoulders. All of this is helpful in my job, fire fighting. I have stated before on this site that training in Uechi has improved my breathing to the point where when we strap on air bottles to go inside my air will last longer than anyone doing the same work. It has taught me how to stop when things are getting crazy and focus, and then tell myself to calm down and relax.

Anyone who spends any time meditating knows there is no greater benifit than being able to stop your mind from wondering. To be able to control your mind and not have it control you.

I feel great and I work with fire fighters less than half my age and they can't keep up. I have a workout that I do at work and guys watch in disbelief. What they don't realize is I HATE WORKING OUT, I just hate being out of shape more.

Benifits of the martial arts...a great life, a great outlook on life, and not a half bad group of friends.

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Train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it. proverbs 22:6
SEAN C
Posts: 382
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 6:01 am

traditional martial exercises

Post by SEAN C »

Gilbert,

Beautiful! Well said, sir.

Anyone else?
Kyle
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 6:01 am

traditional martial exercises

Post by Kyle »

"What they don't realize is I HATE WORKING OUT, I just hate being out of shape more."


HA! I love it! Mind if I use it?
david
Posts: 2077
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Location: Boston, MA

traditional martial exercises

Post by david »

>>Benifits of the martial arts...a great life, a great outlook on life, and not a half bad group of friends.<<

Yeah... Martial arts folks are a sundry lot, but it's mine! Image

david
SEAN C
Posts: 382
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 6:01 am

traditional martial exercises

Post by SEAN C »

Doctor X,

I've done manual labor. It does make you stronger in some ways, or just too tired to make a fist. Pintchforking wet hay mixed with horse manure, for instance, can do wonders for your back, or make you unable to straighten it, depending how you want to look at it. Fortunately I now work at what you might call "one step up from sitting at a desk". I get to move around a little and lift things every once in a while, but I'm not too tired to go home and practice martial arts. Anyways, I find that by doing traditional martial arts forms, I exercise the body in ways that I haven't done in the past. I've experimented with free weights, nautilus, lots and lots of push ups and situps, etc. There just seem to be esoteric benefits dovetailed into some of these things in a very economic manner. I think they're neat! Image

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sean
SEAN C
Posts: 382
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 6:01 am

traditional martial exercises

Post by SEAN C »

What's the world coming to? Doctor X and the master of faeries finding a way to exchange information without needless friction?

I think all exercise is good, as long as there is balance, and too much of anything can be detrimental to the martial artists goal of moving like a tiger, even chi kung! I think back to Navy boot camp, where after lights out, I would do 3 kinds of pushups totalling 280, and the same total of leglifts, crunches and bicycle pedaling on my back. Everyone thought I was crazy, but there where times when the whole company was getting "beat" by the company commanders who where screaming untill they were purple. Everyone would be crying and moaning, but I would be in hysterics over the surreal quality of the situation. I think probably the best benefit of pushing yourself to an extreme is in the forging of spirit. I was younger then, and stronger in some respects, but now that I've reached the wise old age of 32. I've discovered an enjoyable way to exercise without putting undue stress on my body, and learned a new dimension to movement. Now I move more like a cat, and less like a mannequin. I'm not comparing myself to anyone else, just my present to my past.

May we all live long and move with ease! Image

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sean

[This message has been edited by SEAN C (edited February 18, 2000).]
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