Instructors and Board Members,
Seeing as there are many different "Promotional Board" groups made up of many different instructors, it is likely that many of us look for different things in dan candidates based upon our own individual preferences.
However, as many of us talk off of the "forums" regarding "high standards" possibly we can discuss what we feel that actually means. Let us remember that we are only sharing "opinions" of individuals preference as i hope to discuss many aspects of the Dan Testing one at a time.
It is in my opinion that all test candidates should endure strong physical testing of their Sanchin stance.So as to display ones abiity to maintain "Focus" not distracted by powerfull strikes to the body. The chemical change within the body should not inhibit ones ability to perform a well executed Sanchin kata.
I am not suggesting reckless intent of the tester, only that testing should be strong enough to show that the testing person can maintain concentration and posture under more than "normal" conditions.
Good form should be displayed accompanied by powerfull arm thrust and and strong wauki blocks. One should be well centered through the entire kata having intensity within oneself.
Glaring focused eyes and breathing must be incorperated into ones form. Anything less should not warrent the passing of any individuals. Where are the grey areas and/or exceptions ? You tell me.
What is your opinion or expectations from "Sanchin" kata ?
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Gary S.
Dan Test "Sanchin"
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Gary Santaniello
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Fedele Cacia
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Dan Test "Sanchin"
I would like to address the issue, “sanchin test”
What is sanchin test? While respecting other views on this subject, I tend to teach and perform S.T. as it were taught to me as a white belt, The S.T. in my opinion, when at dan level, should be executed with focus and intensity by both parties. If the instructor does not show the importance of the test when testing then the student will pick up on this, and perform accordingly.
Despite different ideas that you may or may not have on this subject, when viewing dan tests, it is always the strong hard tests that catch people’s attention and admiration.
The problems that some of you associate with hard testing, i.e.…tensing and flinching / holding of breath etc., are usually due to hard testing at dan tests, demo’s, or in the presence of a visitor when the student is not usually subjected to that kind of test. If this kind of test is what you are after, then you must build up to it and train for this week in and week out.
I am not trying to tell anyone how to test, but merely to say, you cannot just turn something on if you don't have it to turn on.
I have my own views on this, and you have yours, which I can respect, but I would just like to leave you with one thought, and I quote my former Sensei,
"If you develop this my way, you can go anywhere and not worry"!!
[Jim Hulse U.K.]
Fedele
[This message has been edited by Fedele Cacia (edited February 18, 2000).]
What is sanchin test? While respecting other views on this subject, I tend to teach and perform S.T. as it were taught to me as a white belt, The S.T. in my opinion, when at dan level, should be executed with focus and intensity by both parties. If the instructor does not show the importance of the test when testing then the student will pick up on this, and perform accordingly.
Despite different ideas that you may or may not have on this subject, when viewing dan tests, it is always the strong hard tests that catch people’s attention and admiration.
The problems that some of you associate with hard testing, i.e.…tensing and flinching / holding of breath etc., are usually due to hard testing at dan tests, demo’s, or in the presence of a visitor when the student is not usually subjected to that kind of test. If this kind of test is what you are after, then you must build up to it and train for this week in and week out.
I am not trying to tell anyone how to test, but merely to say, you cannot just turn something on if you don't have it to turn on.
I have my own views on this, and you have yours, which I can respect, but I would just like to leave you with one thought, and I quote my former Sensei,
"If you develop this my way, you can go anywhere and not worry"!!
[Jim Hulse U.K.]
Fedele
[This message has been edited by Fedele Cacia (edited February 18, 2000).]
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Gary Santaniello
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Dan Test "Sanchin"
Fedele,
I agree with you that ones instructor sets the tone of the tesing. If a student is not accustomed to strong testing, as you mention, tensing of the body, lack of breathing and flinching will result. My point is that if an individual is accustomed to "soft" testing, soft conditioning and soft trainning (all the time ) how will one respond in a physical confrontation when being hit with power ?
Yes, this type of testing does have to be brought up gradually, however, do we prefer to see individuals display their ability to withstand that type of pressure without "distracton" or are some confortable with dan candidates not being able to endure some physical impact?
Certainly "Sanchin" does not need to be done in this manor at all times, i am only suggestig that it has some importance and value to it.
Many speak of "standards" in testing. Some have opinionated to me off the forums that they would like higher standards. However, there is no disscussion as to what "higher standards" mean.
I had hoped that many would input what "they" feel regarding the standards of testing possibly discussing one area at a time. Possibly i have gone about it in an incorrect way. Then again, maybe people do not wish to publically state what they look for in testing.
Could it be that instructors and board members all "assume" that we are on the same page or that individual preferences need not be disscussed ?
If we want to maintain high standards of Dan Ranks, how might we go about it without sharing opinions in relationship to it ?
There are areas in the "proceedure" that i personaly feel could withstand some changes. However, i would not want to appear as though i think that i have all the answers.
One particular area is in the fact that 5th and 6th dans only perform Kata as a requirement for rank. Also that Dan Kumite and Seisan Bunkai are viewed by one or two test board members. Why are 5th and 6th dans not performing it in front of the group as to possibly show not only all board members their abilities but also so that lower dan ranks may see what is expected of them at higher levels ?
Hopefully most will agree that higher dan ranks "should" be able to perform this pre=arranged kumite with more intensity, acuracy, timming and spirit than those of lower ranks. If i am seeing this wrong then i guess that would mean to me that many do not look for a difference between the ranks. That's were are standards come into play.
Respectfully.
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Gary S.
I agree with you that ones instructor sets the tone of the tesing. If a student is not accustomed to strong testing, as you mention, tensing of the body, lack of breathing and flinching will result. My point is that if an individual is accustomed to "soft" testing, soft conditioning and soft trainning (all the time ) how will one respond in a physical confrontation when being hit with power ?
Yes, this type of testing does have to be brought up gradually, however, do we prefer to see individuals display their ability to withstand that type of pressure without "distracton" or are some confortable with dan candidates not being able to endure some physical impact?
Certainly "Sanchin" does not need to be done in this manor at all times, i am only suggestig that it has some importance and value to it.
Many speak of "standards" in testing. Some have opinionated to me off the forums that they would like higher standards. However, there is no disscussion as to what "higher standards" mean.
I had hoped that many would input what "they" feel regarding the standards of testing possibly discussing one area at a time. Possibly i have gone about it in an incorrect way. Then again, maybe people do not wish to publically state what they look for in testing.
Could it be that instructors and board members all "assume" that we are on the same page or that individual preferences need not be disscussed ?
If we want to maintain high standards of Dan Ranks, how might we go about it without sharing opinions in relationship to it ?
There are areas in the "proceedure" that i personaly feel could withstand some changes. However, i would not want to appear as though i think that i have all the answers.
One particular area is in the fact that 5th and 6th dans only perform Kata as a requirement for rank. Also that Dan Kumite and Seisan Bunkai are viewed by one or two test board members. Why are 5th and 6th dans not performing it in front of the group as to possibly show not only all board members their abilities but also so that lower dan ranks may see what is expected of them at higher levels ?
Hopefully most will agree that higher dan ranks "should" be able to perform this pre=arranged kumite with more intensity, acuracy, timming and spirit than those of lower ranks. If i am seeing this wrong then i guess that would mean to me that many do not look for a difference between the ranks. That's were are standards come into play.
Respectfully.
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Gary S.
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Marychan
Dan Test "Sanchin"
Gee guys, good topic!! Don't know that I agree about the "hard" v. "soft" test. At gokyu I was tested "soft" and it was the most difficult test I think I have ever had. To me sanchin testing is something that should test stance. It is very humbling to have a tester push your upper torso with one finger and move you several feet. IMHO the test in sanchin should be for stance. This for me is primarly the connection I have with the entire body...in a soft test if there is no connection it becomes very apparent very quickly. Soft testing works the entire body, not just the focused part where the punch or kick is going to land.
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Gary Santaniello
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Dan Test "Sanchin"
Marychan,
Point well taken. Yes, a soft test does show the weekness in stance. I often use it on my students also. Sometimes hard testing with strong strikes to certain areas, other times soft as to check balance and stance. No dissageement there from me.
At Gokyu level i would not expect much ability to endure a lot of strong testing. I only imply that by the time
one is ready for Shodan he/she should be "able" to endure strong testing. After all, on the street an attacker will "hit" you, not touch you softly. I believe that both forms of testing have there owm purpose and benefits.
Thank you for our input.
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Gary S.
Point well taken. Yes, a soft test does show the weekness in stance. I often use it on my students also. Sometimes hard testing with strong strikes to certain areas, other times soft as to check balance and stance. No dissageement there from me.
At Gokyu level i would not expect much ability to endure a lot of strong testing. I only imply that by the time
one is ready for Shodan he/she should be "able" to endure strong testing. After all, on the street an attacker will "hit" you, not touch you softly. I believe that both forms of testing have there owm purpose and benefits.
Thank you for our input.
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Gary S.
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Marychan
Dan Test "Sanchin"
Gary-san. I think good sanchin testing should be both hard and soft and my first post didn't say that...sorry new 'puter. Yes, I agree at kyu ranks the testing may not be as intense but I was formally tested through the ranks and Gokyu was the only test for me that was soft. We often test each other at my dojo and during one class not so long ago I had an opportunity to test a Nidan with a soft test. He told me later he was very frustrated after class knowing he handled hard testing well that night but that with two fingers on his shoulders he discovered how "weak" his stance was - and this guy can seriously take (and give) a punch and kick! I believe a truly good sanchin test incorporates both hard and soft testingti. I also think a really good sanchin should push the student (no matter the rank) to try a little harder... 
[This message has been edited by Marychan (edited February 19, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Marychan (edited February 19, 2000).]
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gmattson
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Dan Test "Sanchin"
Sanchin "testing" is a term I used when first teaching. In the 50s, senior teachers did not hit students during the kata. . . they 'checked' their kata. At demonstrations, senior students would perform very strong 'checks' to impress the audience. In the dojo, students often took one another through Sanchin and performed hard checks. I always enjoyed this when a senior student took me through a kata, however, none of the senior instructors ever hit their students during kata and often cautioned against this practice!
My students enjoyed the "test" of their kata and it caught on here. When the Okinawans visited Boston in the mid 60s, 70s and 80s, they simply thought we needed to be hit in order to get something out of the kata and the new batch of Okinawan teachers happily obliged. I think some really enjoyed pounding on us. Perhaps they thought it was a cultural thing.
Now it has taken on a life of its own, in spite of my frequent apologies for the misconception.
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GEM
My students enjoyed the "test" of their kata and it caught on here. When the Okinawans visited Boston in the mid 60s, 70s and 80s, they simply thought we needed to be hit in order to get something out of the kata and the new batch of Okinawan teachers happily obliged. I think some really enjoyed pounding on us. Perhaps they thought it was a cultural thing.
Now it has taken on a life of its own, in spite of my frequent apologies for the misconception.
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GEM
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Gary Santaniello
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Dan Test "Sanchin"
Sensei Mattson,
With all respect, could the seniors who were performing strong "checks" as to impress the audiences of demonstraations have possibly been recieving some gradification themselves in that they were showing their ability to be capable of holding their posture without apparent effect of this strong "checking?"
Could this "mind set" have evolved into common practice for that reason ? I would also ask respectfully, Did Kanmie Uechi and Ryuko Tomoyose not ever use strong "checking" of senior students in "Sanchin?" It appears the the "Okinawans" tend to display "strong" conditioning in all the displays i have seen on tapes.
Surely at the "Uechi Competitions" in Okinawan when Bob Bethoney fought , the "uechi testing" done displayed an incredible amount of endurence of strong hitting without "distraction." Surely they must train that way in order to be able to withstand that "extreme." Not suggesting that we must follow that path.
Do you feel that Dan Candidates should not need to show any ability to hold up to strong "checking", hitting or which ever term we use ? What about the conditioning or the "sparring" aspects in testing ? As you know, i fought some tough ones at the "Promotional" and at "Clarence Wilders " old tournaments who could give and take a lot. However, there are those who upon one good shot, they are done. Unfortunately, i never get those ones!
I ask, where is the "Middle Path" here ?
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Gary S.
With all respect, could the seniors who were performing strong "checks" as to impress the audiences of demonstraations have possibly been recieving some gradification themselves in that they were showing their ability to be capable of holding their posture without apparent effect of this strong "checking?"
Could this "mind set" have evolved into common practice for that reason ? I would also ask respectfully, Did Kanmie Uechi and Ryuko Tomoyose not ever use strong "checking" of senior students in "Sanchin?" It appears the the "Okinawans" tend to display "strong" conditioning in all the displays i have seen on tapes.
Surely at the "Uechi Competitions" in Okinawan when Bob Bethoney fought , the "uechi testing" done displayed an incredible amount of endurence of strong hitting without "distraction." Surely they must train that way in order to be able to withstand that "extreme." Not suggesting that we must follow that path.
Do you feel that Dan Candidates should not need to show any ability to hold up to strong "checking", hitting or which ever term we use ? What about the conditioning or the "sparring" aspects in testing ? As you know, i fought some tough ones at the "Promotional" and at "Clarence Wilders " old tournaments who could give and take a lot. However, there are those who upon one good shot, they are done. Unfortunately, i never get those ones!
I ask, where is the "Middle Path" here ?
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Gary S.
Dan Test "Sanchin"
My own opinion, as a small person, is that the hard sanchin testing of the 80's showed nothing except that big guys can take more pounding because of greater mass and not that much else. Take a football lineman tell him to take a "sanchin" stance and pound on him. I assure you, he will take more punishment without flinching then someone 2/3 his weight with 20 years of sanchin training.
Think of what it is that we're trying to test and what the test reinforces in the testee. If we are testing rootedness and stability, a soft test succeeds more than a hard test. A guy who can take a pounding can be moved by a soft test sometimes more easily than a hard test. A hard test as generally administered is about mass bouncing off a mass at quick impact but with little thrust through. A soft test is pushing through at slow but consistent pressure. This in, my opinion, is more reliable about testing rootedness of the testee, regardless of the testee's size.
I think in some cases hard testing reinforces bad habits, like leaning into the blow in antcipation which I often see, instead off absorbing and dissipating into the ground, or simply flowing with the blow as I personally prefer. (This is was discussed in the "hard/soft" thread.) Test the stability but don't reinforce the habit and, I think, a misguided notion that one should stand there unflinching in face of a hit. I don't care how hard someone can test, the fact is someone can DRIVE through that with a good strike.
I feel kind of strongly about this. I soured on Uechi-Ryu in the early 80's because of the prevailing machoism about "hard testing." I don't buy that it prepares one for the "real hits." I've sparred and fought and taken some darn good shots. I would never attribute this ability to "hard testing." Neither would other people who I know can take hard shots because their practices don't include "hard testing" in sanchin.
My very personal opinion which will have no impact on what others will or will not do with "sanchin testing."
david
Think of what it is that we're trying to test and what the test reinforces in the testee. If we are testing rootedness and stability, a soft test succeeds more than a hard test. A guy who can take a pounding can be moved by a soft test sometimes more easily than a hard test. A hard test as generally administered is about mass bouncing off a mass at quick impact but with little thrust through. A soft test is pushing through at slow but consistent pressure. This in, my opinion, is more reliable about testing rootedness of the testee, regardless of the testee's size.
I think in some cases hard testing reinforces bad habits, like leaning into the blow in antcipation which I often see, instead off absorbing and dissipating into the ground, or simply flowing with the blow as I personally prefer. (This is was discussed in the "hard/soft" thread.) Test the stability but don't reinforce the habit and, I think, a misguided notion that one should stand there unflinching in face of a hit. I don't care how hard someone can test, the fact is someone can DRIVE through that with a good strike.
I feel kind of strongly about this. I soured on Uechi-Ryu in the early 80's because of the prevailing machoism about "hard testing." I don't buy that it prepares one for the "real hits." I've sparred and fought and taken some darn good shots. I would never attribute this ability to "hard testing." Neither would other people who I know can take hard shots because their practices don't include "hard testing" in sanchin.
My very personal opinion which will have no impact on what others will or will not do with "sanchin testing."
david
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Gary Santaniello
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Dan Test "Sanchin"
David,
I respect your opinion as it is also shared by others. I do agree with you that a football sized player can endure much harder testing than someone of less mass. I did not mean to suggest that one should try to put holes through another in testing, if it seemed that way.
I believe in "gauging" the amount of force accordingly to the size, strength and abilty of the person, as we do in some of our trainning. Personally, i see both ways to have benefits to them.
Yeilding to force and going with a deflection approach i believe is a better solution to a powerful attack. However, one cannot always do that. Yes, being small has that disadvantage of not being able to "exchange" blows. I have run into that myself not being of much size either.
In my trainning now i do look more at closing the distance (if possible) taking position for stiking and/or whatever else, and trying to jam my opponents power with re-direction of ther energy.
Half hard/half soft, can be a confusing reference for many.
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Gary S.
I respect your opinion as it is also shared by others. I do agree with you that a football sized player can endure much harder testing than someone of less mass. I did not mean to suggest that one should try to put holes through another in testing, if it seemed that way.
I believe in "gauging" the amount of force accordingly to the size, strength and abilty of the person, as we do in some of our trainning. Personally, i see both ways to have benefits to them.
Yeilding to force and going with a deflection approach i believe is a better solution to a powerful attack. However, one cannot always do that. Yes, being small has that disadvantage of not being able to "exchange" blows. I have run into that myself not being of much size either.
In my trainning now i do look more at closing the distance (if possible) taking position for stiking and/or whatever else, and trying to jam my opponents power with re-direction of ther energy.
Half hard/half soft, can be a confusing reference for many.
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Gary S.
Dan Test "Sanchin"
I am with David on this one. Hard “checking” is okay here and there, more so to educate the “startle reflex” than “preparing to be invincible”! Hard testing, much like our beloved prearranged kumites, programs very bad habits that most Uechi-ka rationalize in deep denial!
The best testing I have ever seen is the one that Sensei Gilbert Mac Intyre performs, which really tests stability and startle reflex along with conditioning!
We should remember that students, who take a hard test, are hit only on a few select body parts, and only after bracing for the shot! Now if they would take full power blows to the chin, nose, throat, solar plexus, groin, and rib cage, I’d really be impressed, because we all know that in a real fight that is where we will be struck in spite of our magical “blocks”!
Why is it that some of these “tough” human makiwaras still drop gasping for breath after a good serendipitous hit while sparring? And anyone who programs himself to be the “immovable mountain” in a real fight will surely end up like dog meat! Yes, conditioning, and hard “checking” combined with “stability checks” is the way to go! Meaning don’t program your students to remain “rooted” like a tree stump one hundred percent of their "fighting time” …a soft push should see them move, shift and “regroup” physically and mentally circling the imaginary target!
Gary S., you ask good questions as to why 6th Dan and above are not required to perform prearranged kumite in their test! Now I am sure you know that Tomoyose sensei believes that Uechi-Ryu is embodied in the big three forms only, and that is all he ever practiced!
Could it be that in their wisdom our ancient masters were trying to send us a “message” that as you approach the higher ranks the focus of your practice should lie elsewhere?
Personally, I would like 6th Dan and up show more of ability to “Free bunkai” under realistic attack mode than “prearranged play”!
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Van Canna
The best testing I have ever seen is the one that Sensei Gilbert Mac Intyre performs, which really tests stability and startle reflex along with conditioning!
We should remember that students, who take a hard test, are hit only on a few select body parts, and only after bracing for the shot! Now if they would take full power blows to the chin, nose, throat, solar plexus, groin, and rib cage, I’d really be impressed, because we all know that in a real fight that is where we will be struck in spite of our magical “blocks”!
Why is it that some of these “tough” human makiwaras still drop gasping for breath after a good serendipitous hit while sparring? And anyone who programs himself to be the “immovable mountain” in a real fight will surely end up like dog meat! Yes, conditioning, and hard “checking” combined with “stability checks” is the way to go! Meaning don’t program your students to remain “rooted” like a tree stump one hundred percent of their "fighting time” …a soft push should see them move, shift and “regroup” physically and mentally circling the imaginary target!
Gary S., you ask good questions as to why 6th Dan and above are not required to perform prearranged kumite in their test! Now I am sure you know that Tomoyose sensei believes that Uechi-Ryu is embodied in the big three forms only, and that is all he ever practiced!
Could it be that in their wisdom our ancient masters were trying to send us a “message” that as you approach the higher ranks the focus of your practice should lie elsewhere?
Personally, I would like 6th Dan and up show more of ability to “Free bunkai” under realistic attack mode than “prearranged play”!
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Van Canna
Dan Test "Sanchin"
The hardest sanchin testing I've seen was at Takamiyagi Shigeru's Uechi dojo in Okinawa. (This was before the split.) I kind of thought that this was especially emphasized to impress the Shorin Ryu visitors who were watching workout that night, but the students who were being tested didn't seem to view it as being out of the ordinary.
Did the Okinawans take this Boston innovation back to Okinawa with them? Is this a dojo-by-dojo thing in Okinawa, too?
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George
Nana korobi, ya oki.
Did the Okinawans take this Boston innovation back to Okinawa with them? Is this a dojo-by-dojo thing in Okinawa, too?
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George
Nana korobi, ya oki.
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Gary Santaniello
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Dan Test "Sanchin"
Anthoney,
"The reciprient should be well conditioned,but flexible."
As Van states that one should not try being "rooted" like a tree stump! Surely there is an "absorption" factor.
"Conditioning and hard "checking" combined with "stability checks" is the way to go !"
I agree that is best. Also you (Van) seem to somewhat agree that higher Dan Ranks possibly should display something more than lower Dan Ranks ? Possibly you may have some influence in that by suggestion and/or maybe between you and George and others, we could all impliment a change in that criteria ?
I personally feel that 5th and 6th dan should show the "most" in abilty of all dan ranks. Possibly tone it down at 7th or 8th. By the time i am tested for 6th dan i hope there will be a change as i am not comfortable with the three kata format that is presently used.
Respectfully,
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Gary S.
"The reciprient should be well conditioned,but flexible."
As Van states that one should not try being "rooted" like a tree stump! Surely there is an "absorption" factor.
"Conditioning and hard "checking" combined with "stability checks" is the way to go !"
I agree that is best. Also you (Van) seem to somewhat agree that higher Dan Ranks possibly should display something more than lower Dan Ranks ? Possibly you may have some influence in that by suggestion and/or maybe between you and George and others, we could all impliment a change in that criteria ?
I personally feel that 5th and 6th dan should show the "most" in abilty of all dan ranks. Possibly tone it down at 7th or 8th. By the time i am tested for 6th dan i hope there will be a change as i am not comfortable with the three kata format that is presently used.
Respectfully,
------------------
Gary S.
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gmattson
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Dan Test "Sanchin"
Mr. Donahue:
Takamiyagi Shigeru certainly takes the honor of elevating a demonstration tactic into an integral part of his class. It should be noted that when most teachers perform this pounding exhibition, their punches were pulled. Exciting for the crowd and rewarding for the student.
To my knowledge, none of Kanei Uechi or his direct students, ever hit their students during Sanchin. Pushing, proding yes. . . but never to disrupt the student's stance or posture. . . always to build confidence and for the purpose of encouring the person to try harder.
Mr. Takamiyagi, Shigeru never pulls his punches or kicks and has quite an impressive record of breaking fingers, ribs, and other bones of students who meekly endure his 'testing'.
During my 5th dan test on Okinawa, Mr. Takamiyagi volunteered to check my Sanchin. He hit me twice, full power to the solor plexus. On the the third windup, during which he looked like a baseball pitcher ready to throw a fastball, I decided to slightly deflect the blow by moving inward towards the punch while turning my body slightly. It was enough to throw his timing off. As he made contact, his punch bounced off me, propelling him to the floor! That ended his 'check'.
Tomoyose explained to me after the test that Shinjo Seiyu sensei had warned Takimiyagi to stop his hard testing and how such behavior was unnecessary in a test.
During my first stay on Okinawa, I would visit Uechi Kanei sensei's dojo every Saturday and often during his weekday afternoon class. The senior black belts would often take one another through Sanchin in the back of the class while sensei worked with students individually or in small groups. These back of the class sessions often involved seeing who could take the strongest puches and kicks. Sensei would often tell the students to 'lighten up', but with the same results as I get when I tell my senior students to lighten up on sparring or body conditioning!
Students enjoy the full contact and feeling of confidence in taking a hard body shot. I'm sure football players, readying themselves for the rough and tumble contact of a game, often bang heads against a locker, punch one another and yell as part of the ritual of battle preparation. Perhaps that is what we experience during the Sanchin 'test' and why many of us tenaciously cling to the ritual.
In my visits to other dojo during my first stay, I never witnessed this unique Uechi testing. However, many Goju schools have since adopted this practice.
To answer your question George, I think we Americans simply reinforced the 3rd generation Okinawan teachers in their practice of hard testing during Sanchin.
Yonamine Sensei's conditioning experiment of the 70s & 80s certainly didn't help dispell the idea that Uechi students should be hard as oak trees.
Gary: I hope the above answers your questions as well.
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GEM
Takamiyagi Shigeru certainly takes the honor of elevating a demonstration tactic into an integral part of his class. It should be noted that when most teachers perform this pounding exhibition, their punches were pulled. Exciting for the crowd and rewarding for the student.
To my knowledge, none of Kanei Uechi or his direct students, ever hit their students during Sanchin. Pushing, proding yes. . . but never to disrupt the student's stance or posture. . . always to build confidence and for the purpose of encouring the person to try harder.
Mr. Takamiyagi, Shigeru never pulls his punches or kicks and has quite an impressive record of breaking fingers, ribs, and other bones of students who meekly endure his 'testing'.
During my 5th dan test on Okinawa, Mr. Takamiyagi volunteered to check my Sanchin. He hit me twice, full power to the solor plexus. On the the third windup, during which he looked like a baseball pitcher ready to throw a fastball, I decided to slightly deflect the blow by moving inward towards the punch while turning my body slightly. It was enough to throw his timing off. As he made contact, his punch bounced off me, propelling him to the floor! That ended his 'check'.
Tomoyose explained to me after the test that Shinjo Seiyu sensei had warned Takimiyagi to stop his hard testing and how such behavior was unnecessary in a test.
During my first stay on Okinawa, I would visit Uechi Kanei sensei's dojo every Saturday and often during his weekday afternoon class. The senior black belts would often take one another through Sanchin in the back of the class while sensei worked with students individually or in small groups. These back of the class sessions often involved seeing who could take the strongest puches and kicks. Sensei would often tell the students to 'lighten up', but with the same results as I get when I tell my senior students to lighten up on sparring or body conditioning!
Students enjoy the full contact and feeling of confidence in taking a hard body shot. I'm sure football players, readying themselves for the rough and tumble contact of a game, often bang heads against a locker, punch one another and yell as part of the ritual of battle preparation. Perhaps that is what we experience during the Sanchin 'test' and why many of us tenaciously cling to the ritual.
In my visits to other dojo during my first stay, I never witnessed this unique Uechi testing. However, many Goju schools have since adopted this practice.
To answer your question George, I think we Americans simply reinforced the 3rd generation Okinawan teachers in their practice of hard testing during Sanchin.
Yonamine Sensei's conditioning experiment of the 70s & 80s certainly didn't help dispell the idea that Uechi students should be hard as oak trees.
Gary: I hope the above answers your questions as well.
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GEM
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gmattson
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Dan Test "Sanchin"
Tony: Excellent Sanchin 'check'! Your purpose was to build confidence, not to punish. I try to balance my 'checks' with a couple of body punches that match the stength of my student. This is for the student's benefit. I then perform the rest of the check by touching and gentle pushing to determine muscle development, postural ajustments, balance, breathing and concentration.
Just punching and kicking a student doesn't provide the feedback necessary for the teacher to make subtle adjustments.
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GEM
Just punching and kicking a student doesn't provide the feedback necessary for the teacher to make subtle adjustments.
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GEM
