Since I last posted, I have made a little progress in my search for info on that elusive style. When I returned home last night I had recieved a fax that included some names and some of the information that concerned the stories from BB magazine. The original story that BB was working on was primarily the style of Kung Fu used by the Triads. Apperently the story had to be dropped because they did not have any information from primary sources. What they had was accounts from "a friend of a friend" type sources. There was a name and telephone circled on the list so I called.
The man who I eventually got in touch with requested that his name not be revealed so I will refer to him as "Logan." Logan claimed to had trained extensively with the famous Karateka Richie Barathy. He said that Barathy had thrown out the name Kang Duk Won a few times and sometimes reffered to various training methods and aspects. Barathy allegedly had friends within the Hell's Angels group so it would not seem entirely impossible that he might either be very experienced in, or at least know something about the style.
He said that from what he picked up about the style from Barathy and some of his cohorts, the name Kang Duk Won is of American origin and wasn't given to the style until some time after it reached our shores-perhaps by someone who had studied Moo duk Won Tae kwon do beforehand.
Heres where it gets relly far out. Do you remember that earlier post where I linked to thae site www.ashidakim.com ? Well according to Logan this guys real name is Cris Hunter. Logan knew a guy who was also a close friend of Barathy who he thought knew a little more about KDW than he(I'll call him Steve). He said that one day one of Hunter's supposed Chief Instructors was giving a demo in Toronto and was displaying some advanced "Ninja Black Belt techniques." One was a form in which you hit all major pressure points on the body within 10 seconds. Steve remarked to the instructor that that was exactly a form described and demonstrated to him by Barathy when they were talking about the style in question. I guess Hunters instructor adhemantly rebuked they guy saying that he was full of it, and that the form came from Japanese "Ninjitsu." Logan said that Steve went to Barathy and questioned him about the incident and Barathy concluded that what they were showing from that demo was indeed Kang Duk Won. Further inquiries by Steve turned up an old aquaintence of Hunter's that wasn't on such good terms with him. He said that despite Hunter's ridiculous ads and books showing him always in a ski mask and such that he is a very accomplished martial artist. What Logan couldn't figure out was if it indeed was Kang Duk Won that Hunter was teaching, why was he purporting it to be Japanese Ninjitsu? One possible explanation for this would be that after Hunter had achieved proficincy in his art he sought to market it during the "Ninja Craze" of the 80's and thus tried to pass it off as Ninjitsu for maketing purposes and adopted an Asian title to somehow bolster his credibility. Well all said and done, Barathy was probably a very knowlegable source on the subject, but whatever he knew he took with him. Logan Said that he and Steve had not spoken for years but he would try to contact him and give him my number. I could Probably email Hunter, but I doubt I would get any kind of reliable information from him, obviously. I'm going to order a couple of Hunter's ground level "Ninja Books," and see if anything depicted is or ressembles what Aaron taught me.
Dark Days...Followup
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Dark Days...Followup
Brat
Interesting stuff. I see in this important lessons in both martial arts and in history/storytelling. We see how easily a story grows into a legend full of truths, half-truths, and outright fabrications.
The name Richie Barathy kept bugging me as I was reading this. Then I remembered.... He's the guy with the ponytail and I believe one glass eye who used to do demos in BB and other magazines breaking things. I even remember one shot where he was breaking a human skull. Anyone who goes to the trouble of getting a head reduced to a skull bone and then breaking it for purposes of a photo in a martial arts magazine is...well...a showman first and foremost. And yes...Richie looks like the kind of guy who had biker friends, if not a biker himself.
Too bad you revealed some of the truths so early. You could have really embellished on this story and made a lot of money ;-)
Keep the facts coming.
- Bill
Interesting stuff. I see in this important lessons in both martial arts and in history/storytelling. We see how easily a story grows into a legend full of truths, half-truths, and outright fabrications.
The name Richie Barathy kept bugging me as I was reading this. Then I remembered.... He's the guy with the ponytail and I believe one glass eye who used to do demos in BB and other magazines breaking things. I even remember one shot where he was breaking a human skull. Anyone who goes to the trouble of getting a head reduced to a skull bone and then breaking it for purposes of a photo in a martial arts magazine is...well...a showman first and foremost. And yes...Richie looks like the kind of guy who had biker friends, if not a biker himself.
Too bad you revealed some of the truths so early. You could have really embellished on this story and made a lot of money ;-)
Keep the facts coming.
- Bill
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David Elkins
- Posts: 1089
- Joined: Fri Jan 15, 1999 6:01 am
Dark Days...Followup
I think the kata that you reference is called kata Dante'. It drew it's inspiration from John Keenan (aka Count Dante').
Let us know when you get your web site up and running!
David
Let us know when you get your web site up and running!
David
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Rich Mooney
- Posts: 87
- Joined: Sun Nov 08, 1998 6:01 am
Dark Days...Followup
It was one of the last articles for BLACK BELT I have seen by Mas Ayoob. John Keehan, aka Count Juan Dante was a legitimate black belt holder under Robert Trias. He believed in realism before it was a fad. Ayoob had his doubts about Dante's celebrated "death matches" in Asia, but believed that Dante either had killed or had masked the mannerisms of one who had perfectly.
Dante believed in hand techniques primarily, much gouging, ripping, tearing, overkill (Hmmmm. Sound familiar to anyone yet?). Feet for him were transportation. "Try a sidekick in a phone booth! Throw an uchi mata from a phone booth!" he would gibe.
In the 1970's he got into a feud with kwoons that wound up with his dynamiting a kwoon and raiding one (not sure if they were the same or related) which wound up with the death of one of his instructors and friends, Jim Concevic, who was a competitor around the Mattson-Sensei was.
Richie Barathy was a karateka who also was a bouncer, and who studied conditioning and mind/body interactions extensively. No doubt he was a showman; he did a famous break through burning boards on the Johnny Carson TONIGHT show. But the consensus is he knew his way around a dojo and a street fight.
As to Kang Muk Won, I tend to think that if it exists the correct term would be Kang Mu Kwon. Kwon is Korean for school. Mu could be art form. Dunno about Kang; I believe it's a proper name - maybe Kang's school or art, as Shotokan was Shoto's (Funakoshi's) school?
student
[This message has been edited by student (edited March 18, 2000).]
Dante believed in hand techniques primarily, much gouging, ripping, tearing, overkill (Hmmmm. Sound familiar to anyone yet?). Feet for him were transportation. "Try a sidekick in a phone booth! Throw an uchi mata from a phone booth!" he would gibe.
In the 1970's he got into a feud with kwoons that wound up with his dynamiting a kwoon and raiding one (not sure if they were the same or related) which wound up with the death of one of his instructors and friends, Jim Concevic, who was a competitor around the Mattson-Sensei was.
Richie Barathy was a karateka who also was a bouncer, and who studied conditioning and mind/body interactions extensively. No doubt he was a showman; he did a famous break through burning boards on the Johnny Carson TONIGHT show. But the consensus is he knew his way around a dojo and a street fight.
As to Kang Muk Won, I tend to think that if it exists the correct term would be Kang Mu Kwon. Kwon is Korean for school. Mu could be art form. Dunno about Kang; I believe it's a proper name - maybe Kang's school or art, as Shotokan was Shoto's (Funakoshi's) school?
student
[This message has been edited by student (edited March 18, 2000).]
