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 Post subject: A Touch of Hope
PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 1999 2:08 pm 
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I hope Dr X watched the movie on TV last night. Based on the life story of Dean Kraft, who accidentally discovered his power after touching an injured woman and having the woman recover within a day without any afteraffects from the accident.

According to the movie, Dean was extensively tested by Medical doctors who recorded dramatic energy fields resulting from his touch.

After a series of seemingly miraculous recoveries, Dean had a faceoff with a DrX type. The Dr's daughter had been in a coma for a year and was refusing to allow his wife to bring Dean in for the 'touch'.

In a telling speach to Dean, the good doctor proclaimed that if Dean's touch worked, it would alter traditional medicine forever. He didn't believe he could adapt to this shock!

Finally the wife prevailed and Dean did his thing. In the process of 'awakening' the girl, Dean almost died! The good doctor revived Dean, using traditional medical methods. Guess there is a moral or god-sent message here.

At the movie's end, the producer tells us that Dean is continuing his work. . . helping thousands of patients. . . with their doctors!

Comments???



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GEM


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 Post subject: A Touch of Hope
PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 1999 4:43 pm 
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Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
George

Not to be a killjoy but...

* I have no references to "Energy field measurement" in John G. Webster's Medical Instrumentation What type of energy? Magnetic? Gamma radiation? X-rays? Light of any particular frequency? Infrared? Acoustic? Need..more..data.

* We have a whole building here in VA Beach dedicated to "the amazing" Edgar Cayce. It's not far from Pat Robertson's 700 Club studios. And he repeatedly claims to be able to cure people he's never met via telepathy and prayer while broadcasting on the TV. Don't believe me? Listen yourself. He'll preach some religious right politics while he's at it, and tell you where to send money. I feel so lucky to be near such great people.

* Oliver Stone has written history on more than one occasion.

Sorry, it wasn't in a peer-reviewed journal. Sounds like good bedside manner to me, combined with a charming tendency to exaggerate and a desire we all have to "believe". OR...maybe a little P.T. Barnum. Don't you think J.D. the medical community and I would love to harness such powers if they existed? Cheaper and better than seeing your primary care physician!


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 Post subject: A Touch of Hope
PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 1999 6:27 pm 
Mattson-sir

Interesting topic...not sure where you stand on it though. Anyway, it is no secret that I am a big believer in life after death and other phenomena. I am however not a push-over. If you claim to be gifted, you had better be able to convince me. But there are some very gifted and talented people out there. I did have the experience of working with or should I say being worked on by a well respected local psychic who also does health readings and healings. I shattered my toe playing soccer the same night we were having Jay over to work on a little spirit problem we were having with our house. There was no smoke and mirrors, no general statements or other related hocus pocus, I was however able to walk on my foot with no pain within 30 minutes of whatever he did. He also defined and fixed the little spirit problem.

Bill-san
How long has it taken the medical community to accept herbal remedies and accupuncture as medical treatments? Oh yeah, most still don't. My insurance still doesn't cover my chiropractor because they aren't "real" doctors practicing "real" mecicine.

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Shelly


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 Post subject: A Touch of Hope
PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 1999 8:41 pm 
My, My J.D-san...

Are we a little testy about the subject or what? As an engineer, I am well versed in the sciences and I know physics will always win. I also know that energy is neither created or destroyed so it must be doing something somewhere. And that any study can be twisted to serve the purposes of both sides. I also know after I screwed up my back and my orthopediac doctor kept telling me the pain was in my head until he did the MRI and then after a year of physical therapy told me tough luck live with it, it was my chiropractor who got me back to where I could walk with only minor discomfort and without having daily migraines and without 3 different bottles of pills. A placebo...I think not! Yes there are alot of phony's out there, but there are also some who are the real thing. I personally have not been convinced about this whole "chi" thing, but I'm not going to rule out its existence just because I don't understand it. It's one thing to be grounded in the sciences but its another to hide behind them.

As far as proof, I'm sure the hospital still has the x-rays of my toe.



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Shelly


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 Post subject: A Touch of Hope
PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 1999 8:55 pm 
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Shelly

* Aspirin and digoxin are "herbal" remedies. Only difference is that they are purified, standardized doses. You should expect the same from your local "health" food store. Would you accept a prescription from the pharmacy where each pill had a different purity and different concentration of the active ingredient? Would you accept a prescription from the pharmacy that hadn't gone through F.D.A. trials? I don't think so. Some would clamor for a right to sue their H.M.O. for such nonsense. Don't hold "western medicine" and "alternative medicine" to different standards (not that you personally would).

* My insurance company offers limited chiropractic benefits for some policies. It is based on evidence in the medical literature. The AHCPR PORT study indicated that chiropractic (or osteopathic) adjustments were useful in episodes of acute low back pain.

* Some insurance companies, including Blue Cross and Blue Shield plans, offer a special alternative medicine rider. These are sold with no claim made whatsoever for the benefit. That would include things like acupuncture, massages, etc. But everything for a price.

* Our VP of medical policy has this approach. We cover things that are evidence-based. "But if the customer wants tail fins on their cars, well we can sell them tail fins."

- Bill


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 Post subject: A Touch of Hope
PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 1999 9:07 pm 
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Shelly

I am very glad your back is better.

Before engaging in discussions about medicine and treatment efficacy, you must understand the pitfalls of "science by anecdote." In particular, make sure you understand two concepts very well 1) the placebo effect (mind/body power) and 2) regression to the mean (all sick people eventually either die or get better all by themselves when left alone).

Again, glad you got better. In your case, maybe your chiropractor was a factor, maybe not. There's no way to prove an anecdote without first-principles-level measurement. You are better. Good!

- Bill


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 Post subject: A Touch of Hope
PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 1999 11:10 pm 
How did I become the one on trial here? Let's all gang up on the poor kid who dares to utter an opinion other than the norm...

The x-ray of the toe...was still fractured but they couldn't believe it didn't hurt and thought it looked like I had done it a couple of weeks before not the day before.

The back...prior x-rays showed I had straightened and twisted my spine and the MRI showed a buldged disk. After my chiropractor...still had the buldged disk, but he had corrected the spine conciderably. The neuro guy wouldn't touch me because of my age, not that I would have let them do surgery even if they had been willing. I also did those wonderful, most enjoyable steriod shots and all the other stuff they recommended but nothing else worked. Next week I am going to try acupuncture too see if I can get rid of the rest of the pain.

I don't have a problem with western medicine and use it frequently, I just think sometimes there are different ways...especially when your regular doctors give up. And yes, I am familiar with the placebo effect and other means that the body will use to cope with pain. As far as drugs, when you can no longer function at your normal mental level because of all the chemicals it takes to keep you physically function, it's time to start thinking alternatives. Geeze!

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Shelly


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 Post subject: A Touch of Hope
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 1999 1:47 pm 
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J.D.

But unlike others who eat of the lotus plant, she stands up for her beliefs. She doesn't lurk in the background, murmuring that science can't measure what she knows. I like it!

Shelly

Welcome to the frustrating world of wellness medicine. In fairness to your beliefs, medicine of any type often cannot deal with many of the most common and nagging problems of everyday life. Many go a lifetime with back problems of various kinds, and spend a fortune on various modalities of medical care seeking relief. And just because there is good medicine out there doesn't mean there is good delivery of said medicine or good bedside manner.

Furthermore, the vast majority of the medical community has no idea how to treat the active individual. Remember that unlike J.D., most geeks that get into medical school never had outside interests like sports. They were too busy studying in the library and getting soft while eating Cheetos over a copy of Gray's Anatomy. Most M.D.'s idea of treatment for an athletic injury is for you to stop doing the sport; they can't identify.

There are good ones out there. Find a doctor who was once (and maybe still is) an athlete him/herself. When/if you find one with good bedside manner, hold on for dear life.

Furthermore, over time you will learn that prevention is the best medicine, and you are your best rehab doctor. You just need to learn a little more about your body.

- Bill "french fry" Glasheen


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 Post subject: A Touch of Hope
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 1999 1:36 am 
Ahhhhh!!! I see now. Test by fire is it? Well, how about a little fuel for the fire!

Bill-san
"You just need to learn a little more about your body."
I didn't realize you and my body were such close friends that it would feel comfortable sharing with you my lack of knowledge. For what it's worth, for all the activities and sports I have done and played, I have actually come out in pretty good shape. I have managed to avoid needing knee surgery because of the care I take of my knees in everything I do. I read and try to stay current on availabe treatments and research. I listen very closely to the things my body tells me and act accordingly. I take first aid classes and CPR training regularly and being from a rural area is something I have had to use on several occasions. And being an engineer, I am familiar with fluids, electrical current, mechanics, dynamics, and yes even programming. After all, we humans are nothing more than a mechanical marvel, and yes, despite our God given gift of thought, we still are required to function within the confines of physical laws.

I went ahead and did the acupuncture today followed by deep massage and a chiropractic adjustment. Feel great, haven't been this relaxed in years. Just thought you would like to know.


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Shelly


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 Post subject: A Touch of Hope
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 1999 10:50 pm 
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Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Shelly

Some folks took pictures of me at the 1998 camp while I had accupuncture needles in me. Been there, done that. Feels good. And so does eating jalapeno and habanero peppers. Good endorphin rush! They thought they would blackmail me with the pictures. As my wife often reminds me, I cannot be shamed (though some try).

There's a mechanical massage chair at my health club. They charge a dollar a minute for it. I get it free (professional courtesy). Rich once accused me of wanting to get down on my knee and propose to the chair.

My aikido/goju instructor was (and still is) a chiropractor. Once again, professional courtesy. Cra-a-ack! Been there, done that. Feels good. In the end, learned to do it myself and keep my spine flexible without the expensive charges.

It's all good. I'm very happy for you. A very small fraction of this activity has medical value.

My oldest sister pays to have a professional masseuse visit her biweekly. She also has 2 Jaguars in the driveway (one is an antique she's had since it was brand new). I say if you can afford it, go for it.

But when it comes to insurance, it has to be medically necessary and evidence-based. That's our medical policy. There are a lot of things that feel good (or drugs that make you feel good) that we don't pay for. We won't pay for Viagra either unless the customer has sexual dysfunction benefits.

And if you could see my face, you could see I've been smiling all along.

Sorry for appearing to be so preachy (past post). It's a bad habit. And no, don't know that much about your body. And I won't go there - no offense meant :-).

- Bill


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 Post subject: A Touch of Hope
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 1999 3:11 pm 
J.D.-san
Didn't see the movie but I would guess...big fat Hollywood fraud.

And if you have the hammer...I have the cat [teach her to dig up my house plants].

Bill-san
YOU...Preachy? Never!
Viagra, huh? Who's to say if it's sexual dysfunction or just poor technique. Image




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Shelly


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 Post subject: A Touch of Hope
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 1999 3:25 pm 
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I wouldn't know. We just pay for the stuff (or not). We don't ask questions.

When Pfizer first introduced the drug, I believe it was the second-most prescribed drug our health plan paid for behind Claritin. Wish I had bought Pfizer stock. Hard not to notice those statistics when it's your job to watch health trends.

These days it isn't asked for so much. Maybe Shelly was right. We could have used that expertise back when we were wondering if the pharmacy benefit was going to collapse ;-)

[This message has been edited by Bill Glasheen (edited 10-14-99).]


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 Post subject: A Touch of Hope
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 1999 7:18 pm 
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Location: Halifax, NS Canada
Gee, the tenor of this thread has changed a bit from the get go and I'd like to explore this a bit more...I have a friend who practises reiki "massage" and I have had several massages (both hands on and hands off). Although I can't say I have felt physically better afterwards (i.e no miraculous curing of pain), I have definitely experienced something during the massage (I would compare it to a series of electrical shocks which seem to be more concentrated in the lower back and leg area)and I do seem to be more relaxed after. I guess my point is that just because something can't be explained, doesn't mean it doesn't work...

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 Post subject: A Touch of Hope
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 1999 7:21 pm 
Bill-san:

It WAS a cactus that she destroyed. She's very pretty but very, very, dumb.

But I guess your right. A hammer would be a bit extreme...besides she's much to small to make into a coat...a hat on the other hand...

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Shelly


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 Post subject: A Touch of Hope
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 1999 8:24 pm 
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Mary

Sounds very plausible to me. I'm quite a fan of massage.

One of the better "Western minded" kyuho people I know (he's a physician's assistant) gained much of his "hands on" experience through Eastern massage methods. The combination of their massage methods with his knowledge of basic anatomy and his experience in actually putting fingers on flesh has given him a remarkable ability to go for those special "owie" points.

There's no magic in this, and it is indeed understood. The electrical feelings are often nothing more than nerve stimulation. You can cause exactly that just by whacking your funny bone (the ulnar nerve) or taking your knuckles and rubbing the inside bone of your wrist (the radial nerve). Relaxation can come from a number of different mechanisms - the most notable being the release of endorphins. The mechanism for muscle relaxation and subsequent hormone release is a topic worthy of a long discussion.

Healing touch - at least that which was portrayed in the movie - is another story altogether.

- Bill


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