Good talk on blocks

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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:13 am

Bill Glasheen »

Hello, everyone!

Very interesting two threads on shin conditioning and thrust conditioning.

I have many thoughts and many comments, but not all the answers. I am drawing from karate, engineering, and medicine.

* First of all, I am impressed with the dialogue.

* Secondly, this whole thing of shin conditioning gets to an important engineering point. It has been mentioned again and again that one should never strike something that doesn't "give" when conditioning. What we mean from an engineering standpoint is that we are low-pass filtering the impulse function. A blow is like the mathematical impulse function, which has a broad band of energy in the frequency spectrum. A good example of a low pass filter to blows is the spring in a car suspension system. That takes the "edge" off of a bump. And yes, a shinai has "spring" to it. Engineers tune the spring to the car and the desired ride.

* Why all the preoccupation with this? We want to maximize the good (healthy tissue development, bone mineralization, etc.) and minimize the bad (scar tissue, stress fractures, etc.). By trial and error, smart guys in the dojo have been wandering back and forth around this "optimal" point, and have figured out what does the most good and the least bad. Hitting springy things is good. Hitting baseball bats is something to do for a demo - once in a very great while - if you are crazy enough and want to impress people. Image

* What does the medical literature say about bone development and force? There are no "optimal training" papers that I know of. But we know about the extremes. We know that if you send someone up in space in a zero-G environment, that the bones decalcify. We know that if you pound bones too much, they develop stress fractures. We know that women who weight lift are going to have a lower incidence of osteoporosis in old age than women that live sedentary lifestyles. Somewhere in the middle there is "optimal" force on the bone for healthy development. And what that is - given what I read in the literature - is heavily dependent on genetics, age, gender, hormone production, and diet (calcium, magnesium, vitamin D, vitamin K, etc.). We know that stress creates electric currents in the bones, which tell the osteoblasts where to deposit minerals. These are always working in dynamic tension with the osteoclasts, which take minerals away. Do we know what types of force on the bone are best? I don't think so. At this stage, we are best to look at those who have "been there" and tried the good/bad/ugly. Then we can make our own judgements.

* I like the analogy between arm rubbing and the shin rolling. I brought common baker's rolling pins into my dojo in the 1980s, totally out of conjecture that it might help. It is very good for the bony part of the shin where there is no muscle. On that area, the best you can do is create more tissue the same way you get thicker skin on the feet by using them more. It's just another case of a body organ - in this case skin - responding in a healthy way to stress. There is an optimal point there somewhere, and somewhere there is damage. How does this work? I'm not a dermatologist, so will have to defer to such. My guess from knowing how muscle hypertrophy works is that a little bit of damage promotes growth. As long as the growth phase is more productive than the stress phase is damaging, then you get a positive benefit.

I personally do not believe that killing nerves and damaging blood vessels is "optimal." It makes no sense to damage blood vessels as these carry biological signals to the body and nutrients back to the tissue that must be built up. We are constantly sloughing off skin, so this must be an ongoing process. Kill the blood vessels and you will eventually lose all the skin on your shins. Kill the nerves and you will lose your ability to feel what is "optimal."

What I believe changes over time is the perception of pain (which happens deep in the brain) and not the killing of nerves. There will be some reduction of nerve signal with extra layers of skin over top, but you don't really kill a nerve signal. It's like learning how to eat hot sauce. It still feels hot, but we learn to tolerate the feeling. Opiates work this way, and we create our own opiates (endorphins).

This is the body's way of adjusting to the outside world (homeostasis). As the body builds up and is able to tolerate more, the pain communication changes so our perception of "enough" changes with our ability to take more. But understand that FIRST you must develop the body. If the sensory tissues lose track of what is going on structurally, you will eventually hurt yourself, no? That's not good homeostasis.

* I like the comments about the liniments, the thermal things, and the comment that modern refrigeration and heating methods are superior. Enough said. Cold stops internal bleeding (reduces the appearance of bruises) and blunts inflammation. Heat stimulates circulation and promotes healing and tissue growth. Both are important at different points in time.

* When it comes to developing striking weapons, that's a MUCH more complicated issue (the other thread). I tend to agree that much more time must be spent on internal development before whacking on things. I have come to love many of the various pushup techniques mentioned in the other thread. The jars and/or climbing is good too, mainly because it stresses the vulnerable finger joints while pulling them apart rather than compressing them. What's happening here? We are developing the coordination needed to deliver the technique, developing the bone, strengthening the ligaments that attach the bones to each other, strengthening the tendons that attach muscle to bone, flushing fluid through the joints, and doing a little bit of external skin conditioning. So what's left for the makiwara or heavy bag? I think not much, but there are a few important elements.

First, I believe that shock trains neuromuscular reflexes the same way plyometric training does so. Shock waves send strong signals down the stretch receptors to the spine, which in turn causes strong signals to be sent back which cause strong counter-contractions. One can improve these reflexes by stimulating them on a regular basis.

Second, there is a "follow through" that can happen which adds a little bit of juice to the strike. This is like taking a truck and going from straight downhill to straight uphill. You downshift to first, and slam on the accelerator. Those that know how to do it understand what I mean. You can't practice this without hitting something.

I personally believe (yes, opinion) that MOST of the "hardness" can be developed with all the other non-striking training methods. The striking stuff has its own unique benefits, and the hardness element from them can be considered something extra. The advantage is that you don't overstress the joints before developing all the tissues involved (bone, tendon, ligament, muscle, skin). This could mean better-looking skin and more functional joints later in life.

* As for other liniments, western dermatologists have a lot of good ones to add to the tool kit these days. These include anti-infectives, anti-fungals, and skin moisturizers.

- Bill
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:39 pm

Rick Wilson »

I agree that many Uechika do not guard their head.

I also agree that many Uechika do not include the movement that is available to them.

I also believe that most Uechika cannot live up to the belief that the hand position invites people to come down the centre line where we will take them out.
There are those that can make it work, because they have the ability to read their opponent.

However most do not possess the level of ability required. Couple this with the “block THEN strike” mindset and they are doomed. Even if they manage to block the first strike the second catches them.

Many Uechika disdain the ground – “I will never go to the ground by standing strong in my Sanchin.” There are those that believe Sanchin is impervious to a leg takedown, until of course you do it to them.

There are also those who say they “will just do Uechi on the ground.” Now I happen to believe Uechi is exceptionally effective on the ground but only if you understand ground grappling and GET DOWN ON THE MAT to figure it out.

Just my thoughts.

Rick
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:42 pm

david »

You can protect the head by hand positioning and blocking/parrying.

You evade by lateral or horizontal movement of the upper body. You can evade with movement of the whole body. Whatever favored, drill and test and do it all over again.

I also, think whole body movement is not very much evident with a lot of Uechi folks.

I think open hand, palm out, Uechi post position, needs to be considered depending on the individual's finger strength and speed.

Those open fingers can be broken with targeted hits.

Those posted up arm positions make wonderful targets for an edge weapon.

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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:48 pm

Raffi, in one of his seminars, brought up this subject.

He told us to keep the arms back close to the body/face when facing a knife or you'll end up with severed tendons/ligaments as a start.

All well and good..but when you train one way it is almost impossible to change as the conditioned reflex takes over before you even know what's happening.

Also as to the head movement:

Ever hear someone on the test board say he failed the candidate because his head was not moving on a level plane in his kata?

Pretty funny when you think of it.

So you watch us keep getting nailed in the head....reason why TKD fighters in tournaments love Uechi people with their heads unprotected an sticking out like a 'jack in the box'...

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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:43 pm

Your EDC pistol in the dojo

What do you do with a real sharp knife you carry on your person, while in and of your dojo? How do you make it safe while you workout?

Question: If you hand an unloaded gun [take out the bullets and put them in your pocket] to your sensei, and he places it in a safe or drawer under his control, and he has no CC permit, is he in jeopardy?

What if you leave a loaded pistol in your gym bag, and someone gets a hold of it while you work out and accidentally shoots himself or a sempai? Is the dojo owner liable in any way?

What if your sensei is rabidly antigun but you perceive a need to walk in and out of the dojo armed for specific personal or general reasons? What if the dojo is in a dumpy part of town with a history of violence?

What do you tell the sensei?

What if you are assaulted on your way in and out of the dojo located in an unsavory part of town with a history of street violence? Is there any liability on the part of the dojo owner/operator?
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:09 pm

Panther »

Question: If you hand an unloaded gun [take out the bullets and put them in your pocket] to your sensei, and he places it in a safe or drawer under his control, and he has no CC permit, is he in jeopardy?


Ummmm... In the People's Republic of Massachusetts, you both just became instant felons... The Sensei for possession of a firearm without a license and you for providing a firearm to someone without a license.


What if you leave a loaded pistol in your gym bag, and someone gets a hold of it while you work out and accidentally shoots himself or a sempai? Is the dojo owner liable in any way?



I'm sure the dojo owner would be included in any lawsuit, but the firearm owner would be criminally charged for various things... including, but not limited to: providing a firearm to an unlicensed person, and unsafe storage of a firearm.


You have a few options... Don't tell anyone and place your bag in a visible corner of the dojo during workout (could be a problem if someone brings in nosey kids, they don't control them and you're in the middle of being the uke for the sensei).

Previously mentioned lock-box in vehicle (but then you're disarmed on the way into and out-of the dojo). Go into the restroom in a private area, safely unload and lock (trigger-lock, etc) the firearm and lock it into your bag. (Combine that with putting the bag in the corner of the dojo) Tell the Sensei you have "valuables" that need to be locked in the office and just put your entire bag in there.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:16 pm

Panther>>

Question:
Can you just hand the sensei the shells, and keep the gun unloaded in your bag, unlocked? Is the sensei in jeopardy with only the shells in his possession?


Under the "New & Improved Massachusetts Civilian Disarmament Law" passed in 1998, you can get two years in jail -- per empty shell casing! (or ammunition "component"... which makes one believe that you would get eight years per each live round!

Simple math says that's two years per casing, two years per primer, two years per bullet, and two years for the propellent!

So... each round that you hand to an unlicensed person carries the potential of 8 years... each round!
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:19 pm

Panther>>


You can lock a loaded gun in a lock-box at home... IIRC, if you have a lock-box in your car, you can put a loaded firearm into it. If you put a firearm in your trunk (as the lock-box) it must be unloaded.

(Simple... carry a semi-auto and put the mag separate from the pistol in two different places in the trunk... when you open the trunk: "tap, rack, ready-to-bang"

As always in these discussions, IANALNDIPOOTV! This is not legal advice in any way... do your own research, talk to legal experts yourself, and make your own decisions!)

As Rose-Sensei points out, lockers work well... but it's an entirely different thing to have a firearm stolen than a Rolex! In fact, if I owned a Rolex, I'd sell the stupid thing and buy lots more firearms... and a cheap Timex! Image

As far as Gene's "legal duty" questions... IMNSHO, if you are ready, willing and able to take care of your own personal defense going to and from some place (especially if it is a "seedy" area) and any property owner puts you in the position of being as disarmed as the Jews were at Aushwitz, then you damn right I'd sue their butt!

But it would have been established from day one that would happen. How? If I approached someone such as the dojo owner and discussed how to handle my personal rescue tools and was told to leave them at home, I'd get that in writing which would establish who was responsible for disarming me and who was therefore taking on the responsibility for my safety!

If it was a different scenerio and someone knew that I lawfully carry and they said, "Don't come to my place with a gun", I'd do the same thing if I wanted to go back there or I wouldn't go back there.

I had friends at one point that made such a statement and I didn't visit their house for nearly 3 years until they asked me why I never came to visit... the resulting "discussion and demonstration" caused them to become more educated about self-defense issues!
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:08 pm

Critical incident Amnesia

Here is something critical for us to consider when anticipating our reactions to confrontations we might survive. We have discussed this on the legal forum and on this forum before, but it is such a critical subject to our post fray survival [legally and financially] that it bears rehashing.


This is from the killology.com site [Lt. Dave Grossman] that TSD guy pointed out. "Critical Incident Amnesia: The Physiological Basis and the Implications of Memory Loss During Extreme Survival Stress Situations"
By Lt. Col. Dave Grossman & Bruce K. Siddle
Original Publication: The Firearms Instructor Issue 31


The law enforcement officer is constantly required to move to the most traumatic and stressful situations in our society, to respond instantly and appropriately in these critical incidents, and then to accurately remember and report everything that occurred.

Unfortunately, by their very nature, traumatic situations will inevitably result in memory impairment, which is referred to here as "critical incident amnesia." The greater the stress, the greater the potential will be for these memory problems to occur.

Officers who encounter an extremely stressful situation will consistently exhibit difficulty in transferring information into long term memory. Particular memory related phenomenon in traumatic situations include:

1. During the actual incident there is usually a "sensory overload" combined with a "fixation" on some particular aspect of the critical incident, often to the exclusion of all else.

2. Immediately after the incident, "post-incident amnesia" will often result in a failure to remember the majority of the information observed in the incident.

3. After a healthy night's sleep there is usually a "memory recovery" which will result in the remembering the majority of what occurred, and this memory is probably the most "pure."

4. Within 72 hours the final and most complete form of memory will occur, but it will be at least partially "reconstructed" (and therefore somewhat "contaminated") after the inevitable process of integrating available information from all other sources (media).

Critical incident amnesia is one of the ultimate horrors in a law enforcement environment. Failure to understand and address this problem can cause grave injustices.

Memory failure in law enforcement officers, victims, and witnesses can result in a failure to convict or even to apprehend the guilty, or it can result in the prosecution and even the conviction of the innocent.

This article will outline the aspects of critical incident amnesia, and will then address the implications and applications of critical incident amnesia to the law enforcement community.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:11 pm

Memory Influences Before The Critical Incident

All individuals have a set of schemas, inferences, and expectations that they bring into a situation, and which have significant potential to distort their memory of a critical incident.

Some of the most classic and fundamental memory research (Bartlet, 1932; Allport and Postman, 1947; Carmichael, Hogan & Walter, 1932), research which has been built on and replicated for over half a century, demonstrates that human memory is not like a camera taking precise photographs of new experiences.

Instead, it has long been understood that memory is a process of active construction in which old knowledge, beliefs, prejudices, and expectations are constantly shaping (and potentially distorting) our memories.

This research demonstrates clearly how a witness who was physically abused as a child may see a standard or necessary police action as violently abusive, or someone who has racist beliefs or stereotypes may perceive a minority suspect as having a weapon when, in fact, that was not the case.

Understanding the potential for memory distortion based on the baggage that the witness "brings to the table" is "step one" in understanding what is outlined from this point on, and this should be considered as a possible explanation any time a single witness has a testimony that is significantly different from that of several others.


[Lt. Dave Grossman]
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:13 pm

Fixation and Perceptual Distortion

Data perceived through each of the five senses is combined to create what we call "memory." Each of the sensory systems provides the brain with a constant source of information about the environment through a complex network of neural receptors.

Memory is created when data perceived through the sensory network is collated and then "hardwired" into neurons in the brain. Since memory is a product of perception, it is clear that memory can be disrupted when perception becomes disrupted.

In stressful situations, there is almost always an overwhelming flood of information in a very short period of time. At lower levels of stress this commonly results in a state of excessive alertness in which the subject scans the entire environment in order to take in information.

Such an individual may have good memories of some aspects, but in this state it is common to become over aroused and never really settle on or process any of the sensory stimuli into long-term memory (Horiwitz, 1976; Janis & Mann, 1977).

In extraordinarily stressful situations this sensory overload often results in "fixation" on a particular aspect of the critical incident, resulting in a very vivid memories of that aspect of the experience but severely limiting memories of anything else (Hockey, 1970; Bacon, 1974; Mandler, 1982).

Indeed, individuals who experience these memories (such as a face, a weapon, or even a particular sound) often referred to them as being "burned" into their memory.

This fixation is due to "perceptual narrowing" in which the five perceptual senses collapse around a central point of focus as arousal or stress increases (Easterbrook, 1959; Schmidt, 1991).

This powerful process will generally result in a situation where only vision is processed, and even very powerful cues from other senses (such as loud sounds or injuries) may be diminished or completely filtered out.

Perceptual narrowing is an effect of sympathetic nervous system (SNS) activation.

The SNS is activated anytime the brain perceives a threat to survival, resulting in an immediate discharge of stress hormones, which is designed to prepare the body for what has been recognized as the "fight or flight response."

The activation of the SNS is automatic and virtually uncontrollable. Once the SNS is activated, the visual system goes through a series of automatic changes.

Breedlove (1995) has found that SNS excitement causes vasoconstriction to the blood vessels on the periphery of the retina, resulting in a collapse of the peripheral field which is referred to as "peripheral narrowing" or "tunnel vision."

Thus, not only is an individual in a critical incident likely to be limited to only one sense (usually vision) but that one sense will also be greatly reduced or "narrowed." Breedlove states that the visual field can be expected to narrow by 70%.

Cannon (1915) found that SNS excitement triggers pupil dilation, leading to the loss of near vision, and SNS activation also disrupts the ability to focus, which results in a loss of depth perception and the ability to focus on close objects.

How does this research apply to critical incident amnesia? First, memory is a function of collating perceptions, and in combat the visual system is the mother of all senses.

But if the visual system is disrupted or narrowed, the amount of information to collate a complete picture will be incomplete.

Second, the SNS causes vasoconstriction to the periphery of the retina resulting in a significant collapse of the visual field. In other words, the officer will fixate on major threat cues, but cues on the periphery of the visual system may not be processed into memory.

This explains why individuals sometimes fail to remember "seeing" individuals or cues immediately adjacent to the threat.

Finally, the loss of depth perception and near vision accounts for why individuals often fail to accurately identify distances after a survival incident .

[Lt. Dave Grossman]
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:16 pm

Memory Reconstruction

If we do not attend to something it is generally lost to memory (Cherry, 1953; Moray, 1959). Intense fixation of attention on a particular aspect of a critical incident can cause vivid memories in some areas, but by definition this focused attending in one area will cause a reduction in attending (and thus to memory) in all other areas.

If a group debriefing is conducted 24 hours after an incident (preferably after an individual debrief), then the exchange of information within the group will serve as legitimate memory cues which will greatly aid in memory retrieval.

Additionally, there is strong evidence that the moods and emotions generated by reliving an experience will generate accurate memories (Diamond, 1969; Kaiser, 1970; Bower, Monteiro, and Gilligan, 1978; Bower & Gilligan, 1979; Teasdale & Fogerty, 1979; Bower, 1981; Blaney, 1986; Chang, 1986).

Indeed, one research team has speculated that when victims of violent crimes have trouble recalling details of the experience, it may be in part because they are far less emotionally aroused than they were at the time of the crime (Clark, Milberg, & Erber, 1987).
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:17 pm

Most of this memory reconstruction will be legitimate, but from this point on (and particularly after another night's sleep in which the group debrief is process into memory during REM sleep) there is a slight but increasingly significant danger of memory contamination.

The desire for the brain to seek patterns and sense out of chaos is powerful, fundamental, and basic to human nature.

Hobson (1988) states that the brain "is so inexorably bent upon the quest for meaning that it attributes and even creates meaning when there is little or none to be found in the data."

This process of creating memory and meaning is the basis for much memory contamination, and it must be constantly taken into consideration in law enforcement procedures.
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:18 pm

Contamination occurs when information outside actual experience is integrated into the reconstruction of memory. This is an inevitable process in most memory reconstructions, and if reliable information (for example, the narratives of fellow law enforcement officers on the scene) is incorporated into the reconstruction process it can be very helpful in ensuring that the most accurate possible picture is preserved (Loftus, 1979a; Loftus, Miller, & Burns, 1978; Loftus & Green, 1980).

Furthermore, there is evidence that the influence of outside factors in contaminating information will be greater over time (Loftus, Miller & Burns, 1978) if the information is not locked into memory by recounting it (Loftus, 1977).
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Re: Good talk on blocks

Postby Van Canna » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:19 pm

Applications and Implications to Law Enforcement

The implications of critical incident amnesia on law enforcement are profound, and it is vital that procedures be established which will ensure that the most accurate and most complete memories are protected and preserved as a part of standard procedures. The following procedures are recommended:

1. Educate all officers on the effects of stress on memory, in order to ensure that they understand and apply the procedures outlined below. This education process is also vital to reduce guilt and confusion over memory loss, and to reduce the potential for post-traumatic stress disorder.

Administrators, internal affairs personnel and prosecutors should also be educated so that all individuals are working together to ensure that the most accurate possible information is being retained.

2. An initial post-incident interview (or debriefing, or report) should be conducted as soon as reasonably possible after a critical incident. This should be a quick narrative review of what occurred, and it should be remembered that it is very likely a subject (officer, victim, or bystander) will not remember the majority of events that occurred in the incident.
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