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 Post subject: Bare hands to weapons
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 1999 6:52 pm 
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Evan-san ,

Thank you for your kind words ; you epitomize the image of the perfect gentleman and awesome practitioner !

Very timely post as I had been preparing one of my own along the same concept !
Also I was in the process of meeting with Tracy Rose -sensei to develop a similar program for camp seminar etc. !

Then I read an interesting article relating to the 'bare-hands to handguns' course taught at the firing line , a shooting range in pearl River New York :
" mixture of close quarters battle , point shooting and aimed fire ,combined with native American fighting techniques and martial arts taught by John Perkins , Former police detective , forensic expert , 8th dan in Martial arts and veteran of many armed and unarmed encounters ! "

Interesting real life scenarios with vicious sudden attacks , armed and unarmed single /multiple assailants ! An in depth study of variables in desperate sudden struggles based on actual police files events !

We did some of this at LFI with the great Mas Ayoob ! The article points out the concept of preparation and assimilation of the force continuum concept ; the importance of the weapon backup mindset if one is really serious about self defense in today's day and age ; weapon access and retention during a surprise attack , which usually goes down from within ten feet to touching or grappling distance in spite of our best intentions ; the importance of getting away from 'static unrealistic manners' of training !

Mr. Perkins indicates that although 80% of assaults are initiated by bare hand assailants , a large percentage quickly escalate in sudden armed conflict requiring workable , stress proof initial unarmed response to buy time and space to access a weapon if need be !

Traditional martial arts training should still be pursued as the 'launch pad' of our force continuum concept mindset ; but implementation of 'from bare hands to weapons' training drills is where reality is at !

One problem I see with this, is many martial artists , especially women , abhor guns and knives or even 'environmental' type weapons thus perpetuating their denied vulnerability in a fight !

I would love to work with you in implementing this type of 'evolutionary' link to our traditional sets ! We should get together before camp along with Tracy -san and Bethoney Sensei , who is heavily involved in the 'continuum' concept because of his law enforcement work !

Always with respect ,



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Van Canna


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 Post subject: Bare hands to weapons
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 1999 11:03 pm 
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Location: Boston, MA
Van sensei,

Interesting point on the "force continuum". Went to a Pekiti Tirsia (FMA) style taught by Tuhum Bill McGrath, head of of P-T International. McGrath is also a NY corrections officer who does alot of prisoner transport and is head of the corrections department "tactical training" unit.

He was teaching some "empty hand" responses to close quarter knife attacks. Always the techniques involved engaging first with a parry, trap and explosive counterstrikes and then a push off to clear from the attacker. At that point, the defender pulls his/her own knife for further engagement if needed. It's interesting when he taught us, he asked us to engage/disengage and pull the knife. But, whenever he demonstrated for the class as a whole, he would always disengage and mimed pulling a gun. Appeared to me he was falling back on what he would do, has done -- go for the gun. Also, he assumed that all members of the class would be always be armed with at least a knife.

david


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 Post subject: Bare hands to weapons
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 1999 11:32 pm 
Van Sensei:

Please save a spot for me in what ever program you and Sensei Rose come up with for summer camp.


Rick


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 Post subject: Bare hands to weapons
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 1999 12:37 am 
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Hi David ,

< But,
whenever he demonstrated for the class as a whole, he would
always disengage and mimed pulling a gun. Appeared to me he was
falling back on what he would do, has done -- go for the gun. >

Yes , as a trained police officer , he was falling automatically back on his training!

Needless to say , If one has decided to carry a weapon , always opt for the pistol v. the knife assuming you can get a permit ! A knife fight is a nightmare , It requires a hard to develop mindset , entering the opponent and bathing in blood ! It is easier to pull the trigger of a gun at some distance than slicing/stabbing a human target who is doing the same to you !

Mas Ayoob of LFI , explains yet another very important psychological concept !
The gun is the superior hierarchy weapon and would allow the opponent wielding the knife to disengage without losing face , especially if he has got 'friends' egging him on !

Hi Rick ,

You would be welcome with open arms !

Peace


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Van Canna


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 Post subject: Bare hands to weapons
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 1999 10:22 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 2073
Location: Boston, MA
>>A knife fight is a nightmare , It requires a hard to develop mindset , entering the opponent and bathing in blood ! It is easier to pull the trigger of a gun at some distance than slicing/stabbing a human target who is doing the same to you !<<

Yes. The thought is enough to make my stomach turn. Yet, I try to imagine it ever time I engage in (rubber) knife sparring. Every slash across the "live" (blocking) arm, I try to imagine a big ugly, bleeding gash. My thinking is that may be enough pain/fear to hinder me. So, I make it point to try making the attacker pay by always counterslashing/stabbing the attacker's knife hand/arm/neck/chest (whichever shows) as I take it on the arm. At least, we would both be bloodied. The question is not who gets cut but which will sustain the crippling/killing cut.

david


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 Post subject: Bare hands to weapons
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 1999 12:28 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 1897
Location: N. Andover, Ma. USA
Kyoshi Canna,

It would be an Honor to work with your group.

(The following is my humble opinion) There is one Main response I like to work with, being, if attacked by Knife to rush in to break the neck and / or cause as much immediate damage in a short amount of time. I believe that trying to parry the weapon is a waste of effort, (I don't know about others but I always manage to get more slashes and jabs when I try to work with arm control techniques), and a great way to sustain multiple wounds (if not worse). The reality (or pain if you will) from a cut will take a second to register, hopefully being enough time to work your response. When rushing (slamming) in properly (Via San Chin Posture and conditioning) most slashing attacks could be taken with minimal damage to the outer structure of the body (Less important Vascular targets as well as closing muscular mechanisms). This will also allow a push off in which you could engage your weapon if that is the goal but keeping in mind it may also offer the empty hand opponent the same vantage. It will also place a more defensive mindset into the assailant as opposed to the block / parry / control method. This also should be tied in with the tunnel vision concept of the "Chemical Dump" and worked continuously in this environment. If one thinks or worries about the attack they will sustain more damage, if the mindset is trained to get to the target and do the "Job" it will be a more surviveable method.


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