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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 1999 1:46 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 148
Location: Boca Raton, FL
The recent tragic events in Littleton, Colorado have stunned the hearts and souls of everyone, whether involved or not. There is no question in that.

As a result of that disgusting display of terribly misguided and abandoned youth, a local major mainstream Florida radio station conducted a survey, albeit unscientific, of the mindset of its listening audience towards the question of an armed populace.

Initially, the responses were totally against any type of weapons, period. This seemed reasonable since we were all still being traumatized by the scenes coming from Colorado.

By the end of the survey, Sunday, the final results indicated a majority in favor of an armed citizenry by 70% to 30%. There were approximately 20,000 responses (very unusual).

South Florida is home to Intratec Manufacturing, producer of the infamous Tec-9 auto pistols, which I believe was one of the weapons used. Interestingly, they were not "dissed" as much as one would have expected.

Is this "survey" particular to south Florida, which already is fairly well armed, or does it reflect a growing national concensus, contrary to what the Gore's, Clinton's and Reno's would like to see?

Moe Mensale


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 1999 9:13 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 157
Location: Evansville, IN, USA
But Moe you are forgetting that guns aren't the problem... no, it is the video game industry that turns kids into expert sharpshooters. And don't forget the movie business ... afterall if "The Basketball Diaries" had not been made then kids wouldn't commit any violence at all. Everybody with half a brain knows that.

As for the survey itself, I have to admit I am surprised. Usually the sheep like populace of the North America follow the bandwagon and switch sides faster then a cesium atom vibrates! Maybe this does say something, although as you pointed out it is a bit of an unscientific survey.

Osu!
Jason

P.s. - And anybody who knows me know that the first paragraph is sarcasm galore.

P.p.s. - Hmmm ... you know I play Doom, Quake, Half-Life etc. And all the characters in that game use rocket launchers! By this reasoning I should be a expert on the use of rocket launchers! Woo Hoo! Oh, but maybe the "experts" would say that only a child can learn how to expertly shoot a gun by aiming with a mouse. You know if you keep totally objective you can at least imagine how ultra violent video games/movies can desenthisize (sp?) towards violence ... but this latest argument that playing a game makes you into a marksman! It is just too funny to even laugh about.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 1999 3:26 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 24, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 311
Location: Washington DC area, USA
One thing that really ticks me off is the anti-gun people blaming the weapons for the problem and wanting to ban guns. I am NOT a member of the NRA. However, I wish the anti-gun waive would SHUT UP and realize that it is not the weapon it is the person wielding it.

More gun laws will not stop the criminal and crazy people from getting their hands on and using a weapon. If anything it will make things worse for those of us who only want one thing: to protect ourselves.

Now imagine if some children like those Colorado shooters decide it is time to start shooting at people in the street: wouldn't it be nice to be able to protect yourself? But a lot of the hard-core anti-gun folks would tell you that one, it will never happen, and two, they expect a police officer to be able to protect them. Yes, the same police officers that harass me, and some of them, just because we are black, who already have their hands full, and who are busy pulling people over for expired tags, registration and traffic violations.

I really am starting to think that the majority of our country's population is sheep, waiting to be picked off by maladjusted predators. Why oh why don't we think we have the RIGHT and the RESPONSIBILITY to defend OURSELVES and talk to our children?



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 1999 4:16 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 157
Location: Evansville, IN, USA
Being friends with several police officers, even they will tell you that they hold no illusion to being able to protect anybody (despite the "Protect and Serve" motto). The function of the police is to investigate crimes and apprehend criminals which are then prosecuted by the justice system. Granted in theory the police protect us by their presence and perceived threat of being apprehended, and I like to believe that if I were in danger and a police officer was present that they would come to my aid, but there in lies the caveat no? IF a police officer were present. The police are not omni-present ... any argument that the police can and will protect us is pure fantasy. They may avenge the crime done to you or your family, and in a case of luck may protect you, but sadly that particular anti-gun argument is pure fiction.

That being said, as many of you know, I am somewhat of a fence-straddler on the gun issue. I cannot help but wonder if a sufficiently enforced gun control legislation would do some good. The possession of guns in the US by criminals is out of control (in my view), and something must be done about it. Like martial arts legislation, I look to the gun companies and gun owner to take action and act responsibly. If they won't then the government will ... not something that is preferable, but if left with no alternative that is what will happen, and *maybe* should happen.

Osu!
Jason

P.s. - It is still plain funny that video games make you a marksman. That just cracks me up. Does anybody know if the army soldiers play video games to enhance their shooting skills? I know they do have a Marine Corps Doom which they use to practice team work and squad level tactics.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 1999 9:47 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 2074
Location: Boston, MA
Jason,

Col. David Grossman was on 60 minutes, arguing that video games taught not only shooting but desensitizes the users to violence. They went on to show clips of soldiers and police using certain video games for training tactics, like how to clear out a room.

Veracity beyond what was presented on T.V. Don't know.

david


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 1999 10:35 am 
David and Jason,

The Boston Sunday Herald ran an article about violence, using firearms, in the school system dating back into the previous century. I wonder what kind of video games they had then? Davy Crockett and the Alamo? The article further described that all this violence of today is not new.

The only thing really new, however, is that there exixts a powerful group of people who want to disarm the American citezenry. What happened in Nazi Germany? Kosovo can't happen here, eh?




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Allen - uechi@ici.net - http://www.uechi-ryu.org


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 1999 10:58 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 148
Location: Boca Raton, FL
It seems that since the tragic incident, there have been numerous copycats throughout the US calling in bomb scares to their local schools. Down here, they have arrested several teenagers for their acts of gross stupidity. And as the teen is dragged away in cuffs, he/she smiles nicely for the news cameras.

Personally, if these moronic assholes want to play "big boy" games, then let them pay "big boy" prices also - treat them as adults in court and see if that wakes them up.

Also, has anyone noticed how well King Clinton's "Gun Free School Zone" policy has worked recently? Yeah, really well. And who has paid the price for this great work of legislation? A couple dozen innocent kids and adults, that's who.

Moe Mensale


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PostPosted: Sat May 01, 1999 5:47 am 
Some laws are very stupid, like the one you mentioned, Moe, but it keeps the activists happy. If you can't legislate-out the crimoially intent, they should be kept out with metal detectors at the front doors. But even that wouldn't stop the really bent ones anyway.

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Allen - uechi@ici.net - http://www.uechi-ryu.org


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PostPosted: Sat May 01, 1999 7:50 am 
A small town in Alberta (Taber) just had a copycat. Disgruntled young boy who had been subject to abuse from fellow students got caught up in the "glory" portrayed by the media. He walked into his school and got off four shots killing one young man and seriously wounding another.

Why only four shots? Because the school counsellor, a retired police officer, tackled and disarmed him. Oh, by the way, due to budget cuts that same councillor is going to be let go at the end of the school year.

There is never one cause for any tragedy. I do not profess to even know a small piece. I do know that teasing in school is a horrendous abuse and it must be stopped. I believe, as stated in THE GIFT OF FEAR, the media glorifies the perpetrators of such violence thus causing copycats.

Rick


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