Uechi-Ryu.com

Discussion Area
It is currently Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:01 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 1999 1:06 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 3754
Location: Richmond, VA
Van and company: Amazon.com delivered my newest book today: 'More Guns, Less Crime' by John R. Lott, Jr, . Lott is a visiting law and economics fellow at the University of Chicago. In fact, the University funded the study.

This book is full of FBI data, broken down by state and county, and slices and dices crime stats and gun stats in all imaginable ways. It is well referenced and would make Glasheen sensei stand and take notice.

This will not be an easy read as it is full of data, much like a textbook, But when I get through it, I'll report on it fully.

The basic conclusion: States with CCW laws have lower crime rates, and the rates continue to fall as citizens arm themselves. The opposite is true of states with restrictive laws.

The data cannot be refuted. Take that you left wing anti-handgun socialists!



------------------
Rich in Richmond on the James




[This message has been edited by RACastanet (edited 04-28-99).]


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 1999 3:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 24, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 468
Location: Marlboro,MA US
I've read and heard about passages from the Lott study. From what I gather, the statistics and sampling are done in such a way (Bill, help here!!) that the anti gun movement has a hard time refutting his conclusions....


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 1999 3:45 pm 
THIS book I am greatly interested in. I almost never read anything except c++ these days. But, may I ask, Rich, what is the ISBN number?

------------------
Allen - uechi@ici.net - http://www.uechi-ryu.org


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 1999 12:48 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 3754
Location: Richmond, VA
Tracy: Much of the book is in fact a series of responses to critics of an earlier study Lott did. Again, this is dry reading (that is correct JD, no pictures and small print to boot) but I am intrigued. He throws in a few real life examples of the effect of guns/gun control to support his case though.

Allen: The ISBN # is: 0-226-49363-6.

I heard about the book from the author himself as he was being interviewed by G. Gordon Liddy on Radio Free DC last Friday. The man sounds so calm and sensible that it must drive the anti-gun crowd nuts. He even sold my wife as she was in the car with me at the time.

My handgun instructor was on the 5:30pm News in Richmond yesterday discussing the book. Richmond, and our Gov, are quite conservative and support the right to posses and carry a handgun. Amen to that.

Rich.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 1999 3:01 am 
"An armed society is a polite society.
Manners are good when one may have to
back up his acts with his life."

Robert Heinlein,
"Beyond This Horizon", 1942


------------------
Allen - uechi@ici.net - http://www.uechi-ryu.org


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 1999 5:37 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 405
Location: Tewksbury, MA USA
You know guys, I used to work as a police officer, and was once a big proponent of everyone having a gun.

And now I ask you: What a wonderful it would be if everyone carried a gun, right?! Praise Jeezus! A literal heaven on earth! A Utopia!

What are you really proposing here, a return to the Old West?

Given the events of the last couple of days, I think that it is more apparent than ever that even if you made guns available to EVERYONE, some people will choose to carry them and some will not. And where does THAT leave us?

God help us all. Since we seem unable to move away from our primitive roots, maybe we should give every man, woman and child a gun.

Kill 'em all! Let God sort 'em out, right?

Gary


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 1999 3:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 24, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 468
Location: Marlboro,MA US
No, don't give everyone a gun. But don't produce defenseless victims either. There has always been a knee jerk reaction to hard issues such as gun control and similiar social issues (abortion etc.). There must be stringent accountability that goes with any freedom.

later
tracy


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 1999 1:16 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 405
Location: Tewksbury, MA USA
What "strict accountability" do you suggest? Lengthy prison stays for gun "users" and criminals?

In this society of irresponsibility, is it safe to assume that we can arm the citizenry and expect them to behave responsibly (or even RATIONALLY)?

I think the time has come to move forward, not back! I realize that "guns do not kill people, people kill people", but consider that "people without guns cannot kill people with (read: by using) guns"!

The easiest thing in the world for street scum is to pull a trigger. Ask Clarence-sensei. He found that out yesterday!

Gary


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 1999 3:33 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 3754
Location: Richmond, VA
Gary sensei: Arm everyone? No, let the individual decide if he chooses to have that kind of responsibility. This is something for Van sensei to address. Van?

Now, however, I am armed with a huge statistical data base (10 years of FBI files) to support my position. An armed populace scares criminals into reconsidering their actions. Violent crime drops in states with concealed carry laws. Where do the bad guys go? Car theft and non confrontational crime rises a bit, as does crime in adjacent states (if they do not allow concealed carry).

In Virginia, bars, liquor stores and jewelry shops do not get robbed. Why? The local bad guys know these places are likely to have armed employees. Banks, with a no resist policy, are experiencing record robberies.

Only a small percentage of the population needs to have a concealed weapon - 10 to 20% - to have a large impact. The entire populace benefits from the few that carry concealed as the criminal does not know who might be armed. The female population benefits the most. The stats cannot be refuted.

Also, areas with concealed carry laws rarely have multiple murders.

Do I carry? I'll never tell. Do Mattson sensei or Canna sensei? Ask them off line.

Regards, Rich


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 1999 10:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 30251
The gun issue is very personal and very sensitive and I respect the opinions of any and all comers to these discussions unless they attempt to impose their will on the individual readers ! Fortunately this has not happened on my forum !

As controversial as the gun issue is , there are certain facts that cannot be refuted , such as the Florida example !

1] When Florida enacted the concealed carry weapons law , the homicide rate dropped from 37% above the national average to 3 % below the national average !

2] During the fight for passage of the landmark law ; " hoplophobia" [ irrational fears of weapons] __ the crutch of intellectual cripples __ reared it's ugly head in a comical way ! I.E., Oh my -Dodge city returns _ frontier style justice __ welcome back OK Corral __ the wild west revisited __ blood on your hands Mr. legislator __ itchier trigger fingers __ hot Florida climate flashing duels in the sun __ heavy traffic jams exploding in the crack of gunfire __ !

3] This you won't believe : in 1982 Miami police chief Thomas O'Connor , full of hysterical rhetoric sent a telegram to the governor stating that he would arm his rank and file police officers with machine guns to protect them from the crazed citizenry ! Subsequent monitoring by paranoid police chiefs revealed that in two and a half years since the passage of the bill there was not a single case in which a license holder had his gun taken away by a criminal , shot someone by accident , went berserk with a handgun or was killed defending himself /herself with a gun !

4] Florida's immense success has spawned similar ccw permit bills in 33 states and climbing !

Here is something worth noting : Thomas Jefferson , quoting criminologist Cesare Beccaria on " Crimes and punishment " said:

< Laws that forbid the carrying of arms …disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes …Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides; for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man >

And " why the failure to come to grips with the stark reality that there are mean , vicious and violent people in our society who roam about freely threatening innocent people " ?

However Gary's message is on target as to the easy availability of guns by just about anyone , good , bad or ugly ; and this needs to be corrected urgently or we will find ourselves in raging gun battles in the years to come considering the current state of society's deterioration !


------------------
Van Canna


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 02, 1999 12:28 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 3754
Location: Richmond, VA
Good response Van. Virginia did three things in the handgun arena. First, a 'one handgun a month' law was enacted. Then, a reasonable concealed carry law was enacted. Finally, all persons using an illegal handgun in any crime are turned over to the feds for prosecution and a minimum 5 year federal sentence.

The murder rate plummeted about 35 % to under 100 in the first year and Richmond no longer ranks up there with Detroit and New Orleans in per capita murder. Also, gun restricted Baltimore now has a soaring murder rate - over 300 last year. The bad guys found a safe harbor up there it would seem.

Rich


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 02, 1999 12:55 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 2427
Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
Allen Sensei:

Quoting Robert Heinlein!!! My favorite.

Seriously I had heard a lot about this book and must get it.

Rich:

I did make mention of the book in my article, but I did not have it in front of me to read at the time. Fortunatley I don't work a a columnist for the Globe.

Your input on any weapons subject is and would be most grateflly accepted.

Sensie VAn:

Could you elaborate a bit on the Weaver Stance vs. Sanchin on some thread?
Did you get the NRA's material on "Formalizing Shooting Positions", I haven't read it yet.

I did get my State Police issued Instructors "CErtification" if this can be a help to anyone.

It's strange that they BAdmouth the NRA but accept NRA certs for registration .


JOHN T

------------------


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 02, 1999 2:11 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 2427
Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
Gary Sensei:

As a matter of historical interest "Kill Them All and Let God Sort Them Out" was a much used phrase in "nam, I guess.

It was first used, in French or latin, I assume, at the siege of a town in "Languedoc" during the Albigensian Crusade. This was a particularly bad offshot of the Crusading impulse (I am Catholic-but this was bad). The Cathars were a medium sized sect on the 13th Century in southern France who major "mistake" seemed to be in interpreting scripture to find "no authority" for a Papacy. This was often a fatal error in medieval Europe.

As it turned out, the Pope called a Crusade against fellow Chrsitians, whose main center was the town of "Albi" hence the name of the Crusade. Thousand of mostly Northern French, maybe Belgians and Germans thronged for the Fight, mostly, it must be said, for loot and a chance to "settle scores" with Languedoc.

The Papal Legate managed to (with no military experience I am told, but I could be wrong) appointed commander of one of the
"Crusading" Armies. The y laid siege to Beziers, a city of perhaps 30,000. In the town there were perhaps 300 Cathars. To their credit, and Like the Danes in WWII with respect to their Jewish Population, the Town refused to turn over the Cathars.

Thus the "Bishop" was repute to have said Kill Them All and Let Them Stand Before God", and it was done.

JOHN T

------------------


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 02, 1999 4:08 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 30251
Two gunmen invaded the home of my cousin and his wife and shot their little Nine year old girl in the head while her father was frantically looking for a non existing weapon in the house thanks to the hoplophobia of his wife ! The little girl's brains splattered the ceiling and miraculously caused the gunmen to flee and they were never caught ! Now He has a gun in the house and continues with psychiatric treatments !

People can be such cowards , that some even dispute the fundamental right of self defense ! They are the obsessive neurotics of our society !

On the opposite spectrum , you have the great unwashed rednecks who espouse extreme views on the availability of weapons , wear camo fatigues everywhere and fondle their guns as a great phallic symbol !

This is a natural selection process and hence you will never have the "come , let us reason together " ! If we look long and hard in the mirror we begin to discern the inevitable horse's ass staring back at us !

Emotional fixations are deadlier than the bullet !

John T ,

As per the hands on teachings of Mas Ayoob and John Farnam ; the weaver stance is only useful under controlled conditions , and in such cases it is a brethren to our sanchin closed gate ! Under stress it quickly slips into isosceles by it's own accord ! I found that to be true when training under Mr. Farnam in the duelatron scenarios ! Have you read stressfire By MAS AYOOB?

Feel free to start a thread on the weaver !


------------------
Van Canna


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 02, 1999 1:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 2427
Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
Van Sensei:

Thank you for the input on the Weaver. I don't knowquite enough about it to start a thread.

I will do so if I can find some sources.

Frankly, I was trying to pick your brain.

However, this strategy worked in part as now I have another Ayoob Book to purchase. I have not even gotten "In the Gravest Extreme" yet.

The story you tell about "hoplophobia" is a sad one, but for every one we can cite of this type of result, the media will probably "air" three as a "counterbalance.

Let me ask you a serious question as I do not know the answer---how much TV play did Clarence's shooting get on local TV? Some? Any?


Best.


P.S.- Jack spoke of his conversation with you in the Mall and the interested looks from bystanders occasioned by this apparently moving interplay.


JOHN


------------------


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group