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 Post subject: THE WEAVER
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 1999 2:21 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 30207
The weaver stance :

As taught by Jeff Cooper …isometric coordinates …

1] Feet are in a boxer's stance vis-à-vis the target

2] legs are locked at the knees

3] firing arm is slightly bent

4] support arm is sharply bent

5] elbow of support arm is tucked into the body , perpendicular to ground

6] strong hand pushes out , with 45 lb. Of pressure

7] weak hand pulls in , with 45 lb. Pressure;

8] since bent arms may lower position of gun , head may be tilted to the side to allow faster sight pick up !

Good news : it reduces felt recoil , better leverage , better target control !

Bad news : it falls apart under extreme stress as loss of coordination and gross strength taking over do their dirty work , much like all the B. S. karate techniques we practice !

Then there is the ' modified weaver ' { Chapman method} and the famous ISOCELES WHICH ADAPTS WELL INTO " TURRET " APPLICATIONS !!!




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Van Canna


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 Post subject: THE WEAVER
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 1999 3:08 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 24, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 468
Location: Marlboro,MA US
The weaver stance takes (if I remember ) 7 index points. 7 physical things that must line up correctly.
The isocles takes 3.

combine the weaver with Jim Cirrillo's sight alignment method and the weaver becomes easier, faster and more fault tolerant.

btw I use a Weaver based on the way I've trained in Uechi. There is no way under stress I could lock my knees etc. The way I shoot feels very natural to me and I trust it. Weaver was a starting point.


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 Post subject: THE WEAVER
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 1999 7:48 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 24, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 311
Location: Washington DC area, USA
What's the best gross motor stance for firing, if any, in a real confrontation?

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 Post subject: THE WEAVER
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 1999 12:22 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 2425
Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
VAn Sensei:

Thank you for this thread which I am printing as I was not competent to discuss it at all.

Can we pratice at Old Colony sometime?

JOHN T

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 Post subject: THE WEAVER
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 1999 2:34 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 3754
Location: Richmond, VA
Van sensei: When I started serious handgun work the instructor said show me your stance. I went into a somewhat relaxed sanchin with my gun hand over the forward foot. He said it was a little different but if comfortable and natural to not change it.

When I use a rifle or shotgun, which I've been doing for over 30 years, my gun side leg is in the rear. Again, comfortable and natural but the opposite of the handgun position. What do you think of this?

Also, I'm a natural lefty but fire righty to accommodate the weapons I have learned on. The problem here is that I am left eye dominant. Sighting with my left eye allows me to keep both eyes open and I have much better vision. Up close I'd point and fire so that is not an issue. At a long distance my accuracy is better left eyed than right eyed.

Again, any thoughts on this?

Rich


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 Post subject: THE WEAVER
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 1999 4:05 am 
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Cecil ,

We train at learning all kinds of stances to fire a handgun ! Then when the time of deadly confrontation comes , all the bull s *** stances we learned disappear and the body will instinctively take an aggressive forward crouch with it's hands at the end of outstreched arms holding the gun [ isosceles triangle ] ___ remember the old FBI TV show ?

The definitive work on this subject matter is " Kill or get killed" by Lt. Rex Applegate ! He relates that no one will have to tell a man to assume a crouch position when he expects to fire or is being fired upon ! However , in practice , he will have to be told to assume a crouch position !

" the crouch should be natural with knees flexed and the trunk bent forward aggressively from the hips . The position of the feet must be natural , feet parallel , one foot in front of the other ; good balance , able to step off into target direction ! "

The grip on the gun will be extremely tight and convulsive under the stress of the danger to which he is mentally and physically subjected . There will be no inclination to take a stance , raise the gun, line up the sights and squeeze the trigger as in practice !

Gross motor spasms will cause the gun to be shoved /punched into the target as it fired !

J.T.

Love to practice at Old colony if you can wrench me away from my sharps long range express !

Rich ,

Your instructor is wise ! He is allowing you a spontaneous movement /stance to build your skills upon ! Your gun over the forward foot denotes an aggressive stance and mindset which will facilitate your advance into your opponents for a kill !
You will not aim the gun , you will point it at the close range you will find yourself in ; keep both eyes open ! Practice punching the gun at a target 3 feet away and fire !

Rifle / shotgun is more deliberate shooting at longer ranges ; the gun side leg to the rear is perfect for steadier aim !

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Van Canna


[This message has been edited by Van Canna (edited 05-12-99).]


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