COFFEE BAR SHOWDOWN

Sensei Canna offers insight into the real world of self defense!

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COFFEE BAR SHOWDOWN

Postby MFH » Sat May 15, 1999 10:32 pm

Herr Canna,

Danke fur deine compliment! Glad you enjoy. Und, yah, die scenario mit zee zwie punkerz in einnen elevator ist a bit shtickie. But, I must zay dat I am vun uff zee most fortunate men in dat mine wife ist a true fighter. Just a few veeks ago I am at stop light mit four college boys in jeep next door. Vun trows hiz cigarette on zee ground und I comment, "Da place duzn't come mit maid service, you know." He smart mouth und zay, "Shut up or I kick your ass." My wife lean over from zee passenger seat und sneer back, "OOOOooooo, what a Big MMMannnnnn!!!" Dey not say nutting else. Hah! She only 5'2" and over 200 pds. Gut German girl!!! Very strong!! (very beautiful too)!!

Zo, vee set zee stage for elevator. If ever punker get close enough in da furz place to touch her, he be throat punched so fast und groin striked same time mit knee. She haf very nice knees!! Strong German knees!! I especially fond of close-quarters. I imagine vee be polite and ask second boy if he vant to join his frend on floor. Vee probably help him off elevator at bottom if needed. My vife wuz attacked several yerz ago vile out valking vun Sunday morning. Poor fellow...I not give details less his family recognize. Suffice to say he not bother anyone no more.

Your truly...very much enjoy your forum.

Das Hermanator und Squidgemeistress...Michelle
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COFFEE BAR SHOWDOWN

Postby gjkhoury » Sun May 16, 1999 1:30 am

Herr Doktor:

Chu vil answer Trruussfully?

Chu ah happy having chur vife fight chur fights for chu, Ja?

Franz advizez: Check in chur shorts, pal! Somsing missing dhere, Ja?

PS:

Paul Giella: I'm behind you 100% Good post.

GK
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Postby Allen M. » Sun May 16, 1999 4:12 am

What WAS in that sagebrush, Mike?

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COFFEE BAR SHOWDOWN

Postby MFH » Sun May 16, 1999 3:35 pm

Herr Khoury und Giella,

Vell, I am glat you two boyz behinte each udder!! *Fights* are sumpzing zat eight-year-olds engage in!!! Fortunately, my vife not need to vait for me to make John Wayne noises like "I'll take over from here, little lady." She boddered by sumbotty, she able to take care uf it herzelf! Jus like you or me! Vun uf great advantage of karrottie ist avareness uf zoft parts uf body. Not need strength or deep voice. Und bezides, I not alvayz there to protect her. Vut den? (as Grandpa zay to Peter ven asking vut he do ven da vulf show up)?

Dis ist almoz da tventy-virst zenjury!! Vimmen dus der own zing, now!! Chivalry nice concept, but vaste valuable time in zerious confrontation. Better she no vut to do, und do it!! Vee vurk togezer!! Get much more done!! Don chu tink?

Now I curiouz vut Mz. Loftus und Mz. Olsen tink. I call dee girlz und zee vut zay say. MZ. LOOFFFTTTUSSS!! MZ. OOOLLLSSEENNN!! Vee neet und zecond opinion, please? (Heh, heh, heh!! Dis ztarting to get güt).

Der Herrmannator

P.S. Herr Khoury, haf you zeen Dr. White's query "Best Practices in Dojo Marketing" on der Bidnez/Mktng forum? Ve'd be verrrry in-ter-ested in your experiences mit promoting your tournaments. Plez accept invitation to visit.

[This message has been edited by MFH (edited 05-16-99).]

[This message has been edited by MFH (edited 05-16-99).]
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COFFEE BAR SHOWDOWN

Postby Van Canna » Mon May 17, 1999 3:21 am

Hi Mike [ Herman] ,

I am enjoying your posts but you are giving mixed signals and I think you should clarify the issues for the comfort of my readers :

1] You said < I ain't got no self esteem an' need to prove myself,
especially as a MAN (WITH KILLER INSTINCT). I mean, Judge,
would you like, want me to go around for the rest of my life
feeling like that? I ask ya? Huh? Woodja?">

Your reference to killer instinct is an offshoot of my previous post ! Would you clarify your understanding of how an adversary with a natural killer instinct may affect the outcome of a violent encounter ? What do you think the goal is of close quarters combat technique and tactical philosophy ?

2] You said < He who feels humiliated might as well have his nipples tweaked
(squeezed sounds like too much fun) since he's gonna take
umbrage anyway. On the other hand, he who has been battered
is entitled to defend his honor, right? Or, at least, to get a
lawyer. *I* wouldn't have to do anything because
she's perfectly capable of calling her lawyer herself, regardless of
how she decided to respond. And isn't the humility of
transgression a victim's prerogative? What about the satisfaction
of knowing you didn't rise to the bait? >

I am not sure I understand your tactical message here !

3] You said < Zo, vee set zee stage for elevator. If ever punker get close
enough in da furz place to touch her, he be throat punched so
fast und groin striked same time mit knee. She haf very nice
knees!! Strong German knees!! I especially fond of close-quarters.
I imagine vee be polite and ask second boy if he vant to join his
frend on floor. >

So you are saying your wife would respond with violence justified in this instance ?

4] You said < *Fights* are
sumpzing zat eight-year-olds engage in!!! Fortunately, my vife
not need to vait for me to make John Wayne noises like "I'll take
over from here, little lady." She boddered by sumbotty, she able
to take care uf it herzelf! Jus like you or me! > > << Dis ist almoz da tventy-virst zenjury!! Vimmen dus der own zing,
now!! Chivalry nice concept, but vaste valuable time in zerious
confrontation. Better she no vut to do, und do it!! Vee vurk
togezer!! Get much more done!! Don chu tink? <<


What are you saying Mike ? " To fight or not to fight , that is the question why " !

5] You said < My partner in life, female, has spent the past several years
helping me notice some of the sexism in the culture. My objective
is to make a point about what I consider "olde-vorld behaviors,"
fighting in particular. As a "man's" activity it's something we all
*do*!! And it's a matter of pride to be good at it!! *Especially*
when defending one's spouse!!! I shudder to think how the poor
"inept" fares psychologically when he fails. <

This old world behavior is nothing else but nature's programming in our evolutionary process to ensure the survival of the human race ! How do you propose to stifle this instinctive behavior ?

Today if you find yourself in a fight worth fighting , you will probably be facing a psychopath ! The individuals who 'yanked ' at the nipples of the guy's wife and spit in the face of the husband in the elevator were just that __psychopaths ! Do you have advice for us as to how to handle that situation ?


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Postby MFH » Mon May 17, 1999 5:04 am

Dear Ms. Loftus & Ms. Olsen,

I've been doing a bit of minor tail-pulling on Van's forum on the Coffee Shop Showdown topic. I've maneuvered it to the point of bringing you into it, but am a tad concerned about folks getting carried away and wouldn't mind just dropping the topic. So, I thought it might be fun if you're inclined to participate, but wanted you to know where I'm coming from.

My partner in life, female, has spent the past several years helping me notice some of the sexism in the culture. My objective is to make a point about what I consider "olde-vorld behaviors," fighting in particular. As a "man's" activity it's something we all *do*!! And it's a matter of pride to be good at it!! *Especially* when defending one's spouse!!! I shudder to think how the poor "inept" fares psychologically when he fails. The whole thing seems tacitly bizarre!!! This is contemporary cul'chur!! Although this is outside Van's area, it does have to do with mindset.

Hope you can enjoy,

MFH - AKA: Der Hermanator

[This message has been edited by MFH (edited 05-16-99).]
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COFFEE BAR SHOWDOWN

Postby Lori » Mon May 17, 1999 4:58 pm

Across the cyber-waves I heard this thickly accented voice calling out for feminine opinion...

Dangerous move that! Actually asking a female for her opinion?!?

Actually - I've been venturing mine here on these forums for some time now - I believe that may be why I was given my own forum! So I could spout off without clogging up the "he-man" threads!

Seriously - good question about the female standpoint though that is perhaps deserving of it's own thread. I'll be posting one on my forum soon. Please add your input.

Peace,
Lori
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Postby T Rose » Mon May 17, 1999 6:49 pm

Mike,

It is not primarily about whether your 200lb girlfriend can fight on her own or not. It is about how you choose to conduct your life and what you stand for.
You wrote....

***************
she's perfectly capable of calling her lawyer herself, regardless of how she decided to respond. And isn't the humility of the transgression a victim's prerogative? What about the satisfaction of knowing you didn't rise to the bait?
****************

Just to let you know that this is not all hypothetical. Years ago I was out on a date with the person I would eventually marry. While I was talking to my brother, I big guy looked at her moving to the music at the edge of the dance floor. He took a second look, calmly walked over to her and grabbed her by the crotch. She was bruised he grabbed so hard. Is now a good time to call my lawyer? I can't even concieve having that thought that moment!
Maybe you should do consider why you are in Martil Arts.....
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COFFEE BAR SHOWDOWN

Postby Van Canna » Mon May 17, 1999 7:21 pm

Not every woman out on the town with husband/boyfriend is a trained karateka ! Most he/she , as trained karateka , still have no schooling in tactical mindset and will make some serious blunders in either avoiding / escalating !

The intensity of the moment is king , and it is very personal and individual as to what action triggers i.e., aggressive , submissive or non committal !

True , testosterone laden morons , especially budo men will be quick to 'push it' in order to prove something to themselves and to the 'girl' !

Yet testosterone laden cretins have their female counterparts ! Some women are as bad or worse than guys in starting trouble , totally out of control at times , and get their men in trouble up to their necks ! I have witnessed some of this first hand and investigated many cases where women , being the instigators , have resulted in injury or death to their less aggressive / reasonable companion !

In some cases I handled , the women kept insisting /arguing with their husbands that they be allowed to dress scantily in public and flirt as they pleased at parties and dinners, totally inebriated , which would draw taunts upon the husband by the drunken jerks escalating into fights ! I have witnessed some scenes of such women at gatherings that made me want to get up and smack them around ! Remember the movie " The godfather " ?

In many of my investigations , for a man , it was " Damned if you do, damned if you don't" ! A woman who perceives offense /violation before the eyes of her male companion , may say things such as " It's okay It was best you did not do/start anything " but deep inside [ subliminally] she may harbor resentment and withdraw from him thinking he is less of a man , same way that most women lose respect for groveling wimps [ the -yes dear -men] in a relationship !

Then she becomes orgasm dysfunctional and such situations may result in impotence for the male , requiring psychiatric therapy ; I have seen divorce and all kinds of turmoil in between ranging from responses of ' no action to too much action ' in the confrontation !

For some of you out there , be warned this is not a cut and dried subject ; much like the people who would argue gun control with a smattering of knowledge or believe that self defense is a black belt or a few years training on Okinawa or that OKK is better than Uechi-Ryu until they meet the riders of the apocalypse face to face and look for a hole in the ground to disappear !

I have read thousands of pages of psychiatric assessment reports in litigated cases on the subject matter and still find the whole thing very daunting !

Then there are the sheep and the wolves ! Tracy rose sensei was telling me he has had a sheep patch made up ; plenty of candidates for this award ; both male and female !

Gary /Tracy senseis are right when they say that many of you pacifists diminish the value of the dojo real estate every time you bring you ass out on the dojo floor for a " workout" !

And mind you , I am not advocating you fight or raise a finger ; it is your tactical mindset in place/or lack of, that will reduce your mind to shreds !



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Postby Jackie Olsen » Tue May 18, 1999 5:50 am

I'm with you, Lori,

... although I tend to stay to the spiritual/philosophical side (hence, MY own forum Image), I've been known to venture on into testosterone territory now and then...

Actually, playing situational ethics here with the given scenarios (I'm kind of losing track of this thread ... thanks Van for brining it home), I don't think the first code of war is to escalate. After confrontation, and DE-escalation is usually called for. Depending on the situation, I would want to defuse the energy not amp it.

A strong "watch it, buddy" and glare usually backs off a lot of guys. If I have been offended, an in-your-face-you-have-no-right-etc.etc. may humiliate the offender. Although, as you say Van, as psychopaths, they probably don't care what happens. And, in the close confines of an elevator ... I would not want to be boxed in.

MIKE: My SO (significant other) will "champion" me if the energy warrants it. But, he has learned to let me handle it first, where/when appropriate. I was at a dinner party (his friends) where an old friend was harrassing me verbally -- I held back my usual sass because I didn't know the ground rules ... My guy calmy responded to him by saying ..."you don't want to make her angry, you really don't want to make her angry." Now I assume the guy backed off because he just didn't know what to expect from either of us. End of problem.

If I think of anything else...I'll post more later.

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In Beauty,

Jackie


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Postby Mike Hurney » Tue May 18, 1999 12:13 pm

DER HERMANNATOR, If I read that I can read anything. That's as tough to follow as the chat lines and forums I check up on that my daughter gets into.
5'2" & 200#s if she turns in the elevator, she probably can't help but get squeezed.
Interesting comments. My youngest brother went with a woman about 10 years ago who constantly got him in fights. Even in the parking lots. "What are you a**h**** looking at?" Tommy go kick their asses!" Tom: "Huh?" Most of the time these fighting drunks would size him up, call her something and leave. Fortunately for him. He finally got smart and went with someone else. He looks like the lead in "Early Edition" on Saturday nights and has many options. He just married a lawyer six months ago which is what started me thinking about him from your post, MFH.
Mike
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COFFEE BAR SHOWDOWN

Postby MFH » Thu May 20, 1999 5:55 am

All,

Vas avarded a contract for summer karate program. Contract editing, and lawyer consults are taking time. Am enjoying your comments.

I Vill Be Back!!

Der Herrmannator (double r und double n)
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COFFEE BAR SHOWDOWN

Postby MFH » Thu May 20, 1999 4:13 pm

Herr Canna und Alle,

Ok, virzt zingz virst. Back to der elevator. I neffer vant to give impresion zat I not come quivckly to zee aid of my SO (sig othr) or anyvon elz, for zat matter!! Abba, my virst conzern ist are der any vitnisses? I sink mine heritage contribute to zee enjoyment of taking my time in meeting out retribution und I not vant anyone else too know. Killer Instinct, vich I zuzpect ist very qvik und efficient, ist supplanted by "vat can vee do to make zis hurt More!!"

To answer qvestion about vy I schtudy karate, plez to look at article Being A Blackbelt on ARTICLES in Table of Contents on main Uechi page.

Mu apologies for not rezponding more zooner. Vurk has descended. As zed before, gut comments! Much appreciated!

Der Herrmannattor (I double ‘t' on principle)
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Postby JMacD » Fri May 21, 1999 4:17 pm

Van writes:

"The most difficult thing to do is to save face; that is what triggers all the fights!"

I agree. You should always try to leave someone a face-saving way out of a situation. I mean, face it, people screw up, have bad days, lose their minds temporarily. If you push the right buttons you can practically guarantee a fight. The slob in the coffee shop was rude and inconsiderate, but usually wouldn't deserve to have the crap beat out of him for it. On a good day I'd be inclined to say, "I'm sorry. I didn't know my stuff was gonna be in your way. But, hey, next time would you mind not tossing my stuff on the floor? You know, show a little common courtesy." Treat the cretin like a person, engage him, and make him see you as a person, too. Who knows, maybe he'd learn something and you'd leave the world a better place for those who come after you.

Touch my woman, though, and I'm gonna hurt you. Image
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Postby Allen M. » Fri May 21, 1999 11:14 pm

"The Art of War" stipulates it is important to leave room for the enemy to escape

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