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 Post subject: COFFEE BAR SHOWDOWN
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 1999 7:21 pm 
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Not every woman out on the town with husband/boyfriend is a trained karateka ! Most he/she , as trained karateka , still have no schooling in tactical mindset and will make some serious blunders in either avoiding / escalating !

The intensity of the moment is king , and it is very personal and individual as to what action triggers i.e., aggressive , submissive or non committal !

True , testosterone laden morons , especially budo men will be quick to 'push it' in order to prove something to themselves and to the 'girl' !

Yet testosterone laden cretins have their female counterparts ! Some women are as bad or worse than guys in starting trouble , totally out of control at times , and get their men in trouble up to their necks ! I have witnessed some of this first hand and investigated many cases where women , being the instigators , have resulted in injury or death to their less aggressive / reasonable companion !

In some cases I handled , the women kept insisting /arguing with their husbands that they be allowed to dress scantily in public and flirt as they pleased at parties and dinners, totally inebriated , which would draw taunts upon the husband by the drunken jerks escalating into fights ! I have witnessed some scenes of such women at gatherings that made me want to get up and smack them around ! Remember the movie " The godfather " ?

In many of my investigations , for a man , it was " Damned if you do, damned if you don't" ! A woman who perceives offense /violation before the eyes of her male companion , may say things such as " It's okay It was best you did not do/start anything " but deep inside [ subliminally] she may harbor resentment and withdraw from him thinking he is less of a man , same way that most women lose respect for groveling wimps [ the -yes dear -men] in a relationship !

Then she becomes orgasm dysfunctional and such situations may result in impotence for the male , requiring psychiatric therapy ; I have seen divorce and all kinds of turmoil in between ranging from responses of ' no action to too much action ' in the confrontation !

For some of you out there , be warned this is not a cut and dried subject ; much like the people who would argue gun control with a smattering of knowledge or believe that self defense is a black belt or a few years training on Okinawa or that OKK is better than Uechi-Ryu until they meet the riders of the apocalypse face to face and look for a hole in the ground to disappear !

I have read thousands of pages of psychiatric assessment reports in litigated cases on the subject matter and still find the whole thing very daunting !

Then there are the sheep and the wolves ! Tracy rose sensei was telling me he has had a sheep patch made up ; plenty of candidates for this award ; both male and female !

Gary /Tracy senseis are right when they say that many of you pacifists diminish the value of the dojo real estate every time you bring you ass out on the dojo floor for a " workout" !

And mind you , I am not advocating you fight or raise a finger ; it is your tactical mindset in place/or lack of, that will reduce your mind to shreds !



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Van Canna


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 Post subject: COFFEE BAR SHOWDOWN
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 1999 5:50 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 18, 1998 6:01 am
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I'm with you, Lori,

... although I tend to stay to the spiritual/philosophical side (hence, MY own forum Image), I've been known to venture on into testosterone territory now and then...

Actually, playing situational ethics here with the given scenarios (I'm kind of losing track of this thread ... thanks Van for brining it home), I don't think the first code of war is to escalate. After confrontation, and DE-escalation is usually called for. Depending on the situation, I would want to defuse the energy not amp it.

A strong "watch it, buddy" and glare usually backs off a lot of guys. If I have been offended, an in-your-face-you-have-no-right-etc.etc. may humiliate the offender. Although, as you say Van, as psychopaths, they probably don't care what happens. And, in the close confines of an elevator ... I would not want to be boxed in.

MIKE: My SO (significant other) will "champion" me if the energy warrants it. But, he has learned to let me handle it first, where/when appropriate. I was at a dinner party (his friends) where an old friend was harrassing me verbally -- I held back my usual sass because I didn't know the ground rules ... My guy calmy responded to him by saying ..."you don't want to make her angry, you really don't want to make her angry." Now I assume the guy backed off because he just didn't know what to expect from either of us. End of problem.

If I think of anything else...I'll post more later.

------------------
In Beauty,

Jackie


[This message has been edited by Jackie Olsen (edited 05-17-99).]


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 Post subject: COFFEE BAR SHOWDOWN
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 1999 12:13 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 01, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 244
Location: Marblehead, MA USA
DER HERMANNATOR, If I read that I can read anything. That's as tough to follow as the chat lines and forums I check up on that my daughter gets into.
5'2" & 200#s if she turns in the elevator, she probably can't help but get squeezed.
Interesting comments. My youngest brother went with a woman about 10 years ago who constantly got him in fights. Even in the parking lots. "What are you a**h**** looking at?" Tommy go kick their asses!" Tom: "Huh?" Most of the time these fighting drunks would size him up, call her something and leave. Fortunately for him. He finally got smart and went with someone else. He looks like the lead in "Early Edition" on Saturday nights and has many options. He just married a lawyer six months ago which is what started me thinking about him from your post, MFH.
Mike


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 Post subject: COFFEE BAR SHOWDOWN
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 1999 5:55 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 16, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 84
Location: Albuquerque NM USA
All,

Vas avarded a contract for summer karate program. Contract editing, and lawyer consults are taking time. Am enjoying your comments.

I Vill Be Back!!

Der Herrmannator (double r und double n)


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 Post subject: COFFEE BAR SHOWDOWN
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 1999 4:13 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 16, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 84
Location: Albuquerque NM USA
Herr Canna und Alle,

Ok, virzt zingz virst. Back to der elevator. I neffer vant to give impresion zat I not come quivckly to zee aid of my SO (sig othr) or anyvon elz, for zat matter!! Abba, my virst conzern ist are der any vitnisses? I sink mine heritage contribute to zee enjoyment of taking my time in meeting out retribution und I not vant anyone else too know. Killer Instinct, vich I zuzpect ist very qvik und efficient, ist supplanted by "vat can vee do to make zis hurt More!!"

To answer qvestion about vy I schtudy karate, plez to look at article Being A Blackbelt on ARTICLES in Table of Contents on main Uechi page.

Mu apologies for not rezponding more zooner. Vurk has descended. As zed before, gut comments! Much appreciated!

Der Herrmannattor (I double ‘t' on principle)


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 Post subject: COFFEE BAR SHOWDOWN
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 1999 4:17 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 21, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 1
Location: Nashua, NH
Van writes:

"The most difficult thing to do is to save face; that is what triggers all the fights!"

I agree. You should always try to leave someone a face-saving way out of a situation. I mean, face it, people screw up, have bad days, lose their minds temporarily. If you push the right buttons you can practically guarantee a fight. The slob in the coffee shop was rude and inconsiderate, but usually wouldn't deserve to have the crap beat out of him for it. On a good day I'd be inclined to say, "I'm sorry. I didn't know my stuff was gonna be in your way. But, hey, next time would you mind not tossing my stuff on the floor? You know, show a little common courtesy." Treat the cretin like a person, engage him, and make him see you as a person, too. Who knows, maybe he'd learn something and you'd leave the world a better place for those who come after you.

Touch my woman, though, and I'm gonna hurt you. Image


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 Post subject: COFFEE BAR SHOWDOWN
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 1999 11:14 pm 
"The Art of War" stipulates it is important to leave room for the enemy to escape

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Allen - [email]uechi@ici.net">uechi@ici.net</A> - <A HREF="http://www.uechi-ryu.org[/email]


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 Post subject: COFFEE BAR SHOWDOWN
PostPosted: Sat May 22, 1999 12:59 am 
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Joined: Wed May 12, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 25
Location: bridgewater ma. u.s.a
Van

To the coffe bar incident . You throw
your coat over his head and make sure
he never forgets that day!!!

Thats what yuor thinking but not going
to do. Unless he makes the first move.
I read somewhere before, that if your
confident in your abillites, its easier
to walk away. Instead of proving something to youself.

To the nipple thing .
If he believes in god he better start
PRAYING ....


------------------


Joe


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 Post subject: COFFEE BAR SHOWDOWN
PostPosted: Sun May 23, 1999 4:26 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 30347
Here is the response from my Anonymous friend :

"
........
Van Sensei,

I appreciate all of the comments my incident generated. I have kept out
of the picture to avoid "Monday Morning Quarterbacking."

Rick gave the most negative response. I do not believe I was at all
aggressive or attempting to "pick a fight." If I did, I would have swore
at him or tried to create a public scene, pushed him, or otherwise backed
him into the corner. My concern, and the reason I sent my first e-mail to
you, was how to avoid two extreme circumstances.

One the one hand, I agree that the situation did not at all merit violence
or aggressive behavior on my part. Certainly, had he started something,
or if the situation were as some described involving loved ones, that
would be a different matter entirely. I did and do not want to turn
someone's bad day into an even worse one for us both.

However, the guys behaved as a complete butt-head. Should I reward this
behavior? Will he not continue it? Is that my business?

One the other hand, as above, I think to slink away only perpetuates a
victim mentality, does not reinforce adequate conflict resolution, and may
even provoke the guy to escalate against me or the next person he meets
when he has a "bad day."

Though I think these questions are important because of personal
relevance, these are, in my mind, the type of conflicts most of us will
encounter. Frankly, the more extreme situations--you and your girl are
about to be gang raped and you or she carries a gun--have a certain
answer. These lesser conflicts--people "cut in" front of you, your
girl/boy/not sure responds to some denizen and gets you in the thick of
things, someone stops you in the parking lot because of some great sin you
committed on him in the road earlier--these ones we all run into.

Thank you for your thoughts and everyone's comments


------------------
Van Canna


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