Uechi-Ryu.com

Discussion Area
It is currently Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:30 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 47 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:40 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:36 pm
Posts: 414
Location: Strongsville, OH
If you have studied Uechi, then guess what, you've studied boxing!!! It is an old way that they practiced by hitting to the ribs rather than the head... Raise your hands up! This is why the circle block goes shoulder , head, shoulder!! And BTW, who said it must be a circle block??Many great blocking and striking principles in Uechi that are in boxing as well!! I myself am first a Uechi man, then a Boxer second..Unfortunately, I seem to require more time with my boxing skillls, but it's great for me Cardio wise..You guys are too caught up in differences..There is all sorts of cool stuff in the Uechi Katas.. Just need to spend enough time with them to figure it out... :D :lol: :lol: :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Best Laid Plan...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:45 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 2073
Location: Boston, MA
Kin lost a decision yesterday. Despite all the training/sparring, his mind went blank as soon as the match started. Then he was playing catch up. Middle round, most telling. Said he was against the ropes, rather than slip or spin out as he was practicing, he went into "caveman" mode and chose to slug it out on the inside. Not good for scoring where the "dominant aggressor" gets the points.

Told him its okay to be dissappointed but that it's a learning experience. He is doing what some folks can't or won't... which is to put his skill/training/thinking on the line and test himself.

david


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 15, 2002 6:01 am
Posts: 1443
Location: Jeddore
He did not "lose". I can tell you are proud and you should be.
He is of the rare few that put "it" on the line against another doing the same...A warrior.

_________________
Léo


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 3:27 pm
Posts: 174
Location: Quincy MA, USA
Otto wrote:
I watched his "against boxers", and then his "against grapplers" .

You know that old saying "If you can't say something nice about someone, don't say anything at all"?

That man has stricken me mute.


this may be the most truthful and funniest thing i will read today.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Vann's question..
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:36 pm
Posts: 414
Location: Strongsville, OH
" Has any Okinawan Masters actually went against a Boxer?
When they were in the interment camps, the GI's would have Smokers on Fri nights (amateur boxing matches) Mark told me that is how they developed the Shomen Hajike, that they developed it to win the Smokers as they were getting pummeled by the GIs most of the time..
Also there was a Golden Gloves boxer who walked into the Kadena Dojo once.. Big Marine!!!Maybe 6'5'' about 220 of muscle...Alan said Seiyu Sensei told him a tale about how Seiki Irei Sensei started throwing Hirakens at the Boxers hands and broke the bones in the hand the first time.. Then when the Boxer returned for revenge Irei Sensei kicked him to the legs with Sokosens and disabled him that way... Now I can't really tell you the Boxer's name (but I think Alan had a god reason to believe it... :lol: )
And I can tell you from personal experience as I trained with Irei Sensei for a while before I made it to Kadena that his Sokosens hurt.... Really Bad!!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vann's question..
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 3:27 pm
Posts: 174
Location: Quincy MA, USA
Stevie B wrote:
If you have studied Uechi, then guess what, you've studied boxing!!!


i got to disagree with that. as an enthusiast of both there are significant differences in the styles. stances, foot position, hips, shoulders, much of the blocking, foot work, head movement (or lack thereof), training methods (classical) , history, etc... pretty darn different.

i had a bit of boxing under my belt (i'm not that great at it) and the first time i sparred with a uechi black belt i was confused by the kicks. had a hard time picking them up and didn't know how to check leg kicks. i vote that is the advantage karate has. maybe sweeps and reaps as well. my $0.02.

_________________
Nonprofit-CRM


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: karate vs boxing. . .
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:04 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 16, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 5986
Location: Mount Dora, Florida
50 years ago, karate had a big advantage. It was new, different and in minds of boxers in the boxing world, "street fighting with no rules".

At one of my 70's karate championship events, we staged a for real boxer (a former golden gloves champion) and a black belt (Walter Mattson) in a match. The boxer (Nev Kimbrell) could only use his hands since boxers didn't at that time kick. To make the event more real for the boxer, Nev wore 6 oz gloves.

The karate guy had a significant advantage and Walter knew how to keep away from Kimbrell and in the process scoring at will.

Fast forward to now. . .

With the UFC, the technical expertise and time training in all elements of fighting is the current "ultimate" in minimum-rule fighting. Boxers train as hard today but I doubt if any boxer could best a well trained UFC fighter in any match, with or without rules.

Now when I hear the question about "how will a uechi practitioner fare against a boxer", well you have a question with so many variables involved that it is a question that can't be answered.

How many uechi students train the way a boxer trains? How many boxers train when they reach the age of 40 - 50? Even for a couple hours a week?

I keep explaining to my students that most students who stay in the martial arts for many years, do so for many other reasons then to be the "baddest" ass on the block. If you really want to be a bad ass, sign up for a reputable mixed-martial art school. (But then, how many of these guys will be active and training when they are 70?)

If we are confident that our two classes a week qualifies us to fight against a well trained boxer or mixed martial artist who trains 5-6 five hour days a week, they should stop smoking that "wacky tobacci" and switch to fine scotch! :)

_________________
GEM
"Do or do not. there is no try!"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:36 pm
Posts: 414
Location: Strongsville, OH
Why??? Because the 2 arts came from 2 different regions, with 2 different expectations... One is a sport that was cultivated into a huge profit and marketing plan.. The other was to survive in different locations with different geographical problems... (Even if you compare Karate styles you can see which came from Northern China and Southern China) depending on armor requirements, attack and defense requirements and ect... The reason I picked Uechi was probably because it met most of my requirements.. The reason I work at boxing is simply because I have fun doing it, and it makes me feel good!!! Maybe not so much getting beat to helll.... But the high after I did OK...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: HA!!!!!!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:16 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:36 pm
Posts: 414
Location: Strongsville, OH
LMAO at GEM!!!! Way to go George!!! And a great piece of History as well!!
And I definately agree!! The UFC guys today have taken fighting to a huge level... There are a few tricks I'll keep up my sleeve though.. Just cause I want them up my sleeves and not theirs... LOL


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:44 am
Posts: 146
I think the mistake most people make when thinking about “the Karate Man vs The Boxer” is the venue in which they imagine the contest.

I grew up around boxing. Met Rocky Marciano when I was a little boy. I trained at the South Side Boxing Gym in Roslindale MA for many years when I was an up and coming Karate fighter. Freddy Roache, and his little brother Pepper, had the locker next to Jeff White and mine. (Jeff was a Karate man) Freddy was probably ten years old at the time. His father, Paul, was his trainer. (We addressed him as MISTER Roache) We used to listen to everything he said. Joe Vassalo, may he rest in peace, was our trainer. One of the best trainers I ever had.

Worked out with Ray Leonard and Carlos Palomino in L.A. (back in the nineties) on many occasions. Billy Blanks and I taught Ray his first Karate lesson in 96. I told him, “Mister Leonard, I promise I won't try and teach you how to punch.” (he smiled)
Worked the corner in the Gloves a few times here in MA. I like boxing. I like it a whole lot.

I like Karate a whole lot more.

I've had the ever lovin crap kicked out of me by boxers. (but that was in boxing) Had even more of it kicked out of me by Uechi men. (but that was in Karate) So that's what I base this rather long opinion on.

If a Uechi man were to fight a boxer in a ring, under boxing rules, the boxer would most likely win. If a boxer fought a Uechi man, under Uechi sparring rules, the Uechi man would most likely win.

So that leaves a rock and roll self defense scenario. Who would win? The better man, that's who.

I've trained against boxers using Martial Arts, you just have to know what to do.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Holy Cow...
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:11 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 2073
Location: Boston, MA
Hey Otto! Didn't know it was you, the Otto from Rossi. Long time, no see. I used to come by your place at Hyde Park, when you, Jeff and Bob had that place behind the police station. I am the little Chinese guy (friend of Bob's from the hospital) who used to come around in the 80's. Had some nice hard sparring matches with a young black belt guy you had and some cop from next door. Jeff was still stickin' the kicks in too. Good times. LOL! I agree with you. It comes down to man and how he trains (and tests himself) most of the time.

Leo, thanks for the kind words. Honestly, I'm not so much proud of Kin as much as I respect him as a martial artis. A lot parents are proud of their kids but sometimes with minimal basis. Respect is earned. One way I think about it is from back in the day. I liked and was friendly with the Maloney/NS guys (Ralph, Bobby, etc.) but when I stepped onto the floor or the ring with these guys, more than anything else, I damn respected them as tough, go-hard fighters. Ditto with G. Pasare's guys in RI. I honestly didn't care (even disliked) for their over-the-top, bravado but I damn respected them in the ring because I knew I was going to be in for a fight because they backed up their talk ('cause their "Chief" would kick their butt if they didn't put it to the wall).



david


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Boxers...
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:27 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 2073
Location: Boston, MA
memory lane from the days based on some of the posts. I remember when Fred Roach trained in that little hole in the wall in Rossie Square. I remembered doing a sparring a sparring demo in Brockton (Rocky Marciano Day or something like that) and Marvin Hagler was still am amateur and demonstrating his stuff. I watched him fight and said, "holy crap..." Saw Hagler take out Willie the Worm at Hynes. I think ditto eklund with Sugar Ray. Anyway, started training in boxing gyms just to understand what that was about. Remember sparring a golden glove welterweight. Bing! bing! bing! Stickin' it to him. I was doing quite well until... BAM! I was out on my feet. Didn't see it, didn't know what hit me. LOL!

It strikes me if the hard core Uechi fighters want to test their Uechi style skills, don't go against a boxer but against the Muay Thai or Sanda guys. Same approach - leg kicks, knees, elbows and any kind of fist strike you want (and take downs with the latter). Heck, some are even willing to forgo the gloves if really wants to go that route in an "informal match."

david


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:35 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:44 am
Posts: 146
David!
Son of a gun, that was a while ago. Hope you are well.

Another thing I think some folks misinterpret...when talking about boxers,or at least comparing their own skills to those boxers, some folks automatically think of the best there is in boxing. A lot of people box, just like a lot of people do karate, some are good and some are great.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: A bit of perspective_
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 30019
I also competed in tournaments and in the dojo against golden glove champion _Nev Kimbrell and another excellent former heavy weight boxer… a Shorin Ryu practitioner who would come to my sparring class in Boston_ Joe Sherrin….

Even though we weren't fighting full contact to the face in those days, I respected those guys' speed, punching combinations, coordination, conditioning, ability to take punishment _ and the will to engage and finish. Had full contact to the face been allowed…no doubt I would have been hit regardless of the 'blocks' _

A decent boxer can fire off a combo of six or more hard punches in a second_

_trying to hit those fast moving fists with our Uechi pointed strikes will be almost impossible for most of us…as we won't even see those punches and if we are hit once in the head, we will be stunned or knocked out.

Good boxers are tough, aggressive, well-seasoned strikers who train to both dish out as well as take punishment, not only to the body but to the head.

_________________
Van


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 30019
Generally speaking, most karate don’t train to get hit in the face/jaw/head/nose etc. as a boxer does.

If the karateka hasn’t trained in full contact, to the head… doesn’t get the first shot in and if he relies on high kicks in the street _ he’s in trouble.

Not training in full contact puts him psychologically way behind. The boxer will able to take harder shots and not be fazed.

Boxers definitely have the advantage there. The karateka will be in trouble when he takes a full shot to the body/ribs/face.

Also a boxer will outlast the average karateka in a street fight, if it goes a while as they are better winded.


_ Speed more than strength is the big thing here.

A skilled boxer is going to have very fast hand speed, and he’ll know how to use his body to throw devastating punches, as well as covering up.

They know how to slip/duck/spin out. A good boxer can throw about 6 good punches per second. Bridget Maloney can.

_________________
Van


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 47 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group