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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:54 am 
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You're in a green town, and also this way the chief is protecting you from hassles sure to come by some overzealous cop stopping you.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:31 am 
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http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/f ... ararms.htm

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:42 am 
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http://www.independent.org/publications ... ?bookID=72



Thomas Jefferson, a life-long hunter and gun collector, wrote just before his death in 1826 that “all power is inherent in the people; . . . it is their right and duty to be at all times armed.”

The understanding by his generation of the Second Amendment was clear and unmistakable—as its text states, it recognizes “the right of the people” to possess and carry arms.

The Constitution defines the respective powers of the federal and state governments, but the Bill of Rights speaks largely of individual rights. If the Second Amendment is no exception, what it protects—and what restrictions government may impose—will continue to be hotly debated.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:14 pm 
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Kevin Mackie wrote:
In MA and in my town in particular, all you have to put down for a Class A is " all lawful purposes".

You don't have to expand upon that.


That's the way it's been for years. If you wanted an unrestricted license, you just put ALP under reason for issuance. I just went through the renewal process and I'd heard before that was eliminated... when things were filled out during my renewal, it wasn't even mentioned and there wasn't a place for "reason for issuance". My current (and still valid) LTC is Class A and has right under Issuing City/Town, "Reason for Issuance: All Lawful Purposes"... When I get the new one, I'll post whether that is still there or not. I've heard that having to give a reason for issuance is one of the great things that GOAL has successfully gotten removed. The thought being that without that, COPs (Chiefs of Police) no longer have a place to put in restrictions. Before, that was where "Sport and Target ONLY" was put by some COPs who were getting around the denial lawsuits but still creating restrictions... Some of them are also doing that by only issuing Class B (non-large capacity) LTCs.

There were a lot of people who were upset when the current licensing scheme replaced the old one and one reason was that ALL licenses now cost $100. As in so many things, those who think they're solving a problem don't take into account the "Unintended Consequences" of their actions. The unintended consequence of that was to cause everyone to look at it and go... "Hmmm... costs me the same whether I just want to get an equivalent of my old FID (which BTW was "good for life until revoked for cause"... read the back... I still have mine from... well from a loooong time ago :wink: ) or whether I go for everything and get the Class A - ALP. Might as well go for the Class A - ALP!" Soooo... all those people who would have never thought of actually carrying a firearm, but who just needed the permit for their old hunting shotgun, NOW are getting Class A. And if you get a Class A, why not go ahead and exercise your rights with a Class A! The same thing happened with first time applicants who were wondering which LTC to get. If they all cost the same... get the highest level! I have about a dozen or so people who I've helped through the process since the change and every one of them made the same choice. (Except for two actually... they moved to NH before getting their MA LTC and ended up with the $20 NH permit...)

The other thing that GOAL has supposedly helped to eliminate (I have no first-hand experience with this in recent years) was the "extra" requirements that some COPs were putting on applicants. I don't think those are allowed anymore, but some COPs were also requiring Doctor's notes, their own "testing", and the "voluntary" release of medical/financial records. More hurdles to the process... Some were also requiring that the applicant pay for finger printing, back ground checks, postage, officer's time, and a whole host of nickel & dime "cost reimbursements" in addition to the $100 fee. Those have also been stopped by GOAL sponsored legislation I think. (Again, that hasn't been an issue for us...)

I will give one related tale from a few decades ago:

I had moved to a town and my LTC needed to be renewed. The COP in that town had his own "test" that you had to pass or no LTC... When I went in to renew, it took a couple of weeks to "catch the COP at a good time". Then he took me out behind the station (the place is built up now, but back then it was just an open field with woods out back) where he had a "target" (hand-drawn on a piece of plywood propped up against a stump) set up. He started to hand be a revolver saying, "It has 6 shots, you have to hit the black with 5 of 'em". I passed the FIRST part of the test by saying, "Make it safe and I'll take it"... after we went back and forth on that for a second and he realized that I wasn't just going to take a loaded gun from him, we moved to the SECOND test where I insisted on using eye & ear protection for both of us (passed that too much to his chagrin... he usually failed folks on one of the first two tests and never got to the third test)... then on to the THIRD (and final test)the "shootin' part". I lined up the target and squeezed the trigger and... WAY low to the right! (I still remember it all these years later...) Missed on the first of 6 and had to hit on the next 5 or fail... I compensated for the off sights and aimed hi-left... In the black... barely... a little higher, a little more left... Next 4 right on! At first the COP looked disappointed, but then he slapped me on the back and said, "Guess I'll have to issue that renewal. Welcome to the town." Over a few years I found out that LTCs in that town could be counted on your fingers and toes. I also found out that the COP wasn't a "bad" person, just that he felt that you should have a certain proficiency level before you should be allowed to carry a gun around. I must also say that back in those days the "course requirement" was pretty lax and that was why the COP discretion was supposedly needed. Since COPs had discretion all those years ago, they've successfully argued for and been able to keep that to the present day. being from a place below the Mason-Dixon line, I was raised around guns and to know how and why you use, want and need them. OK... enough "ancient history"...

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 Post subject: A & B
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:05 am 
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http://www.ehow.com/how_2064604_get-per ... eapon.html

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:03 am 
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Sensei, that link reads like it is out of date by about 5-10 years... Even 4 years ago, when I renewed, the whole fingerprint card, two picture stuff was out of date. And that's in a very small town in Central MA...

The fingerprinting was done with a scanner and the picture was taken with a web-cam.

The info about getting a Class A is accurate, but most towns (especially the ones you posted before from NEShooters that were in green) don't need any sort of written justification. I didn't have to put any justification in writing even back in the early 80s... but back then it varied from town to town, I think that has been stopped by GOAL sponsored legislation now.

You do have to take an approved course, but these can really vary. The one in Worcester takes a couple of hours sitting there listening to a lecture. Other courses take ~4 hours of class time, and still others (like the one I recommend taking from Starfire or GOAL) not only do class time, but also have a range/shooting component.

You have to prove who you are with a picture ID (that's why they suggest a license) and either your birth certificate or naturalization certificate (to show you're a citizen) OR your green card (to show you're a legal resident alien). OR if you're a citizen with a passport, it does all of that with one document. (Birth/Naturalization certificates, SSN cards, green cards don't have pictures on them, which is why they say you also need a DL. Passports have your picture and information on it as well.) I've never been asked for any utility bill or proof of town/city residence since it's always been on my DL or passport. Like I said above, the towns have always done my fingerprinting (in the old days... FYI, that has been used as an "excuse" on MANY occasions to delay, delay, delay someone's permit... "The fingerprints aren't any good... can't check 'em... redo 'em..." etc.) And I haven't had to go out and get separate passport photos in so long that I can't recall when the last time I had to! Back in the 80s you had to do that, but then most towns just set up their own cameras and now they send your image directly to the CSHB (the State) using a web-cam... same as fingerprints (which are digitally checked now and accepted immediately). In the "old days" to get the passport photos wasn't a big deal. AAA or most camera stores would do them for a few bucks.

The info needed for a non-resident is the same, but the LTC is only good for 1 year instead of 4 and costs the same $100. Also, from the time you send in the app to the time you get the LTC can be awhile and by then you only have an LTC good for 9-10 months... for the first time anyway. I don't know of any non-resident LTC holder who's needed a letter from a COP, but all of the non-resident LTC holders I know have a permit in their own state.

If you get your LTC in 40 days you're in a good town/city... since there isn't any real penalty for it being delayed, if it's not a good town... good luck. if denied you have only 90 days to petition. I've heard of towns that have drug things out with promises to "look at it" or "reconsider" or whatever so that the 90 days passes and then... well, you should have petitioned within the alloted time-frame... too bad you didn't. Be careful if that dance starts because that is usually what they're trying to do. I've also heard of someone who kept getting told that their license was "in the process" and then, after a few months, got a denial with a date that was dated 80-something days earlier! He had a reeeally good attorney who specialized in such matters that got it all taken care of. (Unfortunately Darius passed away at a very young age recently... :cry: )

Anyway... that's my $10,000 worth... (hyper-inflation dontchaknow...) :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:40 pm 
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Does a class B license actually show a restriction on it that disallows concealed carry?

Also, with a class B, apparently you won't even be entitled to have at home a hi cap rifle, like an Ar-15??

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:35 pm 
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Quote:
If you get your LTC in 40 days you're in a good town/city... since there isn't any real penalty for it being delayed, if it's not a good town... good luck. if denied you have only 90 days to petition. I've heard of towns that have drug things out with promises to "look at it" or "reconsider" or whatever so that the 90 days passes and then... well, you should have petitioned within the alloted time-frame... too bad you didn't.

I'm fairly certain that the C.O.P. has a definate time to respond to the application.

Also, my chief asks for two letters of recommendations from town citizens to attest to your good character.

I took my course in Marion at the Marion PD on a saturday night.
It's free for anyone who signs up. They may still be doing that.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:12 am 
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It's not on the Class B per se, but it's in the statute. I can't recall if you need a Class A for hi-cap long arms or not. Regardless, they cost the same and require the same training/process to obtain. Get the Class A.

Yes, Kevin, the COP is required to respond within a certain period of time. Many games get played by some of them to get around things. That's why I always tell people that if the time comes and they haven't gotten a response or if it's a BS excuse response other than "here it is" or "you're denied" in writing... call a good attorney.

On that note: two attorneys who I know that kind of have a specialty about this are: Jesse Cohen and Keith Langer. They're both good at what they do. For personal reasons I'm a bigger fan of Jesse... He's in Framingham...


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:26 pm 
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Good points.BTW, Panther, what is the usual cost of retaining Atty Cohen to get you a license?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:25 am 
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Sorry Sensei, I don't know... I've never had to use his services. (knocking heavily on wood!) I have a friend who used him for something else that was totally unrelated and I was told "he ain't cheap, but he did what he said he would do." In that case Jesse felt like another attorney was a better fit for the case because the other attorney was more of an expert in the particulars of that type of case, so Jesse referred it to the other attorney.

I've had some good conversations on the 2nd Amendment, freedom, etc with Jesse... had him as a guest on a radio show I used to do 10+ years ago and we "agree" on a number of things. (Which is more than I can say about most attorneys!)


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:05 pm 
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:)

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:47 pm 
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And this happened in NH...

http://tinyurl.com/46q42x2

One would think with all the guns in NH...the murderer would have been deterred from such home invasion thoughts.

Quote:
Furlong bashed in the locked front door by repeatedly throwing his body into it at a run. Jaimie was lying in a pool of blood, trying to yell, “but nothing was coming out,’’ Furlong said. “I observed numerous lacerations to her face and extremities. Part of her foot was completely missing. Another part of her foot was barely connected.’’

“I got close to her, and she whispered that she thought her mommy was dead,’’ Furlong said.

Jaimie’s father, David, who was away at the time of the attacks, wept softly as Furlong described his daughter’s words and injuries.

Furlong testified that he carried Jaimie out of the house, then found Kimberly Cates’s body in the master bedroom.

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 Post subject: Sort of weird...
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:20 am 
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You would think that the home of the Boston Tea Party would maybe be a little more accepting to the Right to Bear Arms..


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