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 Post subject: Stockholm syndrome?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 1:14 pm 
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Calgary police are investigating after the victim was shopping at the Deerfoot Mall with her father and got separated from him. At around 6:30 p.m. a man posing as a police officer told the girl she was shoplifting and he wanted to speak with her.
When she told the man she did not want to go with him, he grabbed her and brought her to his vehicle.
On his way north, however, he was caught speeding by an RCMP officer.
"A regular traffic member conducted a traffic stop and provided him with a speeding ticket," said RCMP Const. Robert Frizzell.
"He saw the girl, didn't think much of it, just thought that this person had a young lady in the car; she didn't say anything, there wasn't visible signs of trauma or injury or crying or any marks."
The man was then given a speeding ticket and drove off.
"As best as we can guess he got spooked or scared and dropped the young lady off at the restaurant where she called us for help," said Frizzell.
Police were then called to a restaurant in Airdrie because the staff noticed the girl was visibly upset. She told them she had been abducted.
Shortly afterward, she was reunited with her parents.


No reason for the officer to suspect anything. However, what would you teach your children to indicate help needed?

Note: She is 10 years old.

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 Post subject: And of course
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 2:19 pm 
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CALGARY – The lawyer of a man the RCMP are classifying as a high risk offender is fighting back.

On Thursday, RCMP issued a warning stating that John Francis Dionne was a high risk sex offender who had a history of violent sex offences against women between the ages of 10 and 42.

Dionne has recently moved to the small town of Linden, Alberta.

He claims the information RCMP released is embellished. He admits he does have one conviction in Alberta for a sex offense against an adult prostitute.

Rebecca Snukal, Dionne’s defence lawyer, says they will be taking action, which could include defamatory libel against the RCMP.


Just received an interesting update.
Quote:
Police are looking for John Francis Dionne, 43, of Linden, Alta. In October, RCMP issued a public warning after Dionne moved from Calgary to Linden, about 75 kilometres northeast of the city.

On Friday, Airdrie RCMP said a chance speeding ticket issued as a man was on his way out of Calgary may have stopped the kidnapping of the girl who was taken Thursday night from the Deerfoot Mall.[quote/]




Surprise! This is the man who abducted the 10 year old.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:45 am 
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When she told the man she did not want to go with him, he grabbed her and brought her to his vehicle.


She should have screamed, kicked and made a scene upon 'first touch' by that pervert.

But she did not and allowed her to be transported to the 'second crime scene' _ the car.

Why did she not yell/scream 'help me' to the police at the stop? What did she have to lose at that point?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:27 pm 
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But she did not and allowed her to be transported to the 'second crime scene' _ the car.

She was not aware a crime was taking place...she was accused of shoplifting by an authority figure. Much like a teacher marching her to the Principle `s office for something she did not do...bewildered protest at best.

Posing as an officer he gained authority control of her young mind . Her not wanting to go with him was likely due to her not having actually done something wrong. My guess was she was hoping her dad would deal with the adult currently in charge upon finding them. Taking her out of the building into a vehicle she was possibly in the same state of mind even though something seemed not right. I wager he told her how to behave when he was in the process of being pulled over. These predators develop the skills to control a young mind better than the parents, they often use what they know mom/dad and the schools have trained them to do for advantage. the solution is simple however...

Quote:
He claims the information RCMP released is embellished. He admits he does have one conviction in Alberta for a sex offense against an adult prostitute.

Rebecca Snukal, Dionne’s defence lawyer, says they will be taking action, which could include defamatory libel against the RCMP.


The "weak" are protected...Where are the wolves when we need them? Culling required.

So...what do we tell are children?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 2:54 pm 
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This is problematic. On the one hand you tell kids to respect authority. On the other hand you don't want them abducted.

I tell my sons again and again and again that there are "no secrets" and I won't get angry at them if they are troubled about something and need to talk to me about it.

And on that second note... I practice what I preach. If my older son tells me he's done something and it is clearly wrong, I don't get hysterical. I make my feelings known, but I thank him for telling me.

This would be a great "scenario training" topic for a kids dojo. That's the only solution IMO. Kids need to practice these situations so their responses are automatic (operant conditioning).

- Bill


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:08 pm 
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You make very good points, Leo, about how easily a child can be manipulated.
Quote:
At around 6:30 p.m. a man posing as a police officer told the girl she was shoplifting and he wanted to speak with her.

When she told the man she did not want to go with him, he grabbed her and brought her to his vehicle.


One would think that even a 10 year old child would, by instinct, protest that she had no taken anything from the store if she had nothing on her as evidence of shoplifting…and to yell for help when 'grabbed' …

So what do we tell our children?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:21 pm 
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Van Canna wrote:

One would think that even a 10 year old child would, by instinct, protest that she had no taken anything from the store if she had nothing on her as evidence of shoplifting…and to yell for help when 'grabbed' …

I disagree. The more you train your kids to respect authority and not talk back, the more the child instinctively assumes (s)he has done something wrong when accused. I grew up a Catholic, Van. Been there, done that.

And we wonder why so many young boys were molested by pedophile priests. I don't... Those authority figures who take advantage of their authority roles deserve punishment worse than hell.

Ever wonder why Hitler sent a whole nation down an errant path? Germans respect authority. Germans do as they are told. You never see a German cross a road until the light is green - even if there are no cars in sight. It is part of being German.

- Bill


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 Post subject: Training should be fun
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:29 pm 
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Quote:
grew up a Catholic


French Catholic school myself in early 1960`s...I hear ya :roll: Thankfully I`m going through my second childhood now with more spirit in me :)

I still hear this quite often in the store I work from mom/dad
" If you don`t behave the police will come take you away"

Hmmmm...nice.

Takes a community to protect a child.

One good solution I have witnessed (safe communities program) is bringing in the police to discuss their rights and what to expect if arrested. This scenario included floor walkers and what happens if caught shoplifting. Scares them from shoplifting and at same time gives them real expectations of how they would be processed.
This does not encourage a child to challenge authority...it lets them listen to that instinct Van indicated.
Can this be done in the dojo? Ideal in my opinion...Certainly there are police officers willing to volunteer and having one present would have more of a lasting impact. Mom/dad present would also be of benefit.

Knowledge is power correct :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:37 pm 
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Good points Bill, Leo.

So how is an average family to handle this problem to safeguard the child?

How could the girl in the car have avoided the kidnapping?

Maybe we should tell them to loudly protest their innocence if guilty of nothing...should be easy to program...

Even cops look for this in accused.

Having respect for authority is one thing but meekly being led to the slaughter, if innocent, is another.

There is a survival instinct in child as well.

Let us not forget that the girl was 'grabbed' upon refusal to go with the !@#$$_

They should be taught that authority figure/priests ...whatever... ...to never allow anyone to touch them...ever...or scream...or just get away....a child knows when something is wrong...

any suggestions Leo?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:07 am 
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Van Canna wrote:

Having respect for authority is one thing but meekly being led to the slaughter, if innocent, is another.

Ever read The Rape of Nanking? That piece of history will give you a lifetime of nightmares.

I am on the same page with you, Van. The right way can be taught.

- Bill


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:36 am 
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Yeah, Bill...unspeakable horrors there....

But can we get to specifics on how to teach children the right behavior?

Surely there must be some professional opinions out there.

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 Post subject: Inventoried resources
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:17 pm 
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Bill and Van you may find this link interesting having worked in the field(s) you do. Started with the passion of one man (Paul Kells) who lost his son in a work place accident. At a conference I witnessed him "selling" his dream to health care and law enforcement professionals. A decade has past and results realized and more initiatives being added. In a nutshell representatives from law enforcement, health care, businesses, public works, school boards, seniors groups/youth groups meet on a regular basis and pool stats and resources.
Examples that comes to mind are taxi`s park when idle in front of convenience stores/take outs giving added security to themselves and the store employees...young employees do not face leaving the store alone or walking home...fresh coffee as well ;)
Skate board park placed adjoining police headquarters and safety gear donated by local businesses.
Involved businesses do not hire students until they have completed a work place safety program which includes knowledge of workers rights and hazardous materials.
All stats such as EM visits to hospital are shared to correct the root cause if possible...be it criminal or icy sidewalk.
Martial artist such as our Victor Swinimer involved in programs initiated by the police department and local schools. I helped Victor in a couple of these and we were posted on the police web site in a positive way :lol:

It honestly does take a community to raise a child.
More than professionals...we need passion to teach our children how to protect themselves.

http://www.safecommunities.ca/whatisasafecommunity.php

Quote:
It is a community that puts people and processes in place to ensure that a blend of strategic activities and community involvement will have a significant impact on the rate of its injuries wherever and however they occur




Another way I like to think of it is...form a tribe. Each member be it warrior or healer etc has his her role to play.

Older children :D
http://www.bridgewaterpolice.ca/senior_citizen's_police_academy.htm


Last edited by CANDANeh on Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:08 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:48 pm 
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Bill and Van you may find this link interesting having worked in the field(s) you do. Started with the passion of one man (Paul Kells) who lost his son in a work place accident. At a conference I witnessed him "selling" his dream to health care and law enforcement professionals. A decade has past and results realized and more initiatives being added. In a nutshell representatives from law enforcement, health care, businesses, public works, school boards, seniors groups/youth groups meet on a regular basis and pool stats and resources.
Examples that comes to mind are taxi`s park when idle in front of convenience stores/take outs giving added security to themselves and the store employees...young employees do not face leaving the store alone or walking home...fresh coffee as well ;)
Skate board park placed adjoining police headquarters and safety gear donated by local businesses.
Involved businesses do not hire students until they have completed a work place safety program which includes knowledge of workers rights and hazardous materials.
All stats such as EM visits to hospital are shared to correct the root cause if possible...be it criminal or icy sidewalk.
Martial artist such as our Victor Swinimer involved in programs initiated by the police department and local schools. I helped Victor in a couple of these and we were posted on the police web site in a positive way :lol:

It honestly does take a community to raise a child.
More than professionals...we need passion to teach our children how to protect themselves.

http://www.safecommunities.ca/whatisasafecommunity.php

Quote:
It is a community that puts people and processes in place to ensure that a blend of strategic activities and community involvement will have a significant impact on the rate of its injuries wherever and however they occur




Another way I like to think of it is...form a tribe. Each member be it warrior or healer etc has his her role to play.

Older children :D
http://www.bridgewaterpolice.ca/senior_citizen's_police_academy.htm

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Léo


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:52 pm 
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Bill and Van you may find this link interesting having worked in the field(s) you do. Started with the passion of one man (Paul Kells) who lost his son in a work place accident. At a conference I witnessed him "selling" his dream to health care and law enforcement professionals. A decade has past and results realized and more initiatives being added. In a nutshell representatives from law enforcement, health care, businesses, public works, school boards, seniors groups/youth groups meet on a regular basis and pool stats and resources.
Examples that comes to mind are taxi`s park when idle in front of convenience stores/take outs giving added security to themselves and the store employees...young employees do not face leaving the store alone or walking home...fresh coffee as well ;)
Skate board park placed adjoining police headquarters and safety gear donated by local businesses.
Involved businesses do not hire students until they have completed a work place safety program which includes knowledge of workers rights and hazardous materials.
All stats such as EM visits to hospital are shared to correct the root cause if possible...be it criminal or icy sidewalk.
Martial artist such as our Victor Swinimer involved in programs initiated by the police department and local schools. I helped Victor in a couple of these and we were posted on the police web site in a positive way :lol:

It honestly does take a community to raise a child.
More than professionals...we need passion to teach our children how to protect themselves.

http://www.safecommunities.ca/whatisasafecommunity.php

Quote:
It is a community that puts people and processes in place to ensure that a blend of strategic activities and community involvement will have a significant impact on the rate of its injuries wherever and however they occur




Another way I like to think of it is...form a tribe. Each member be it warrior or healer etc has his her role to play.

Older children :D
http://www.bridgewaterpolice.ca/senior_citizen's_police_academy.htm

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Léo


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:01 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 15, 2002 6:01 am
Posts: 1443
Location: Jeddore
Bill and Van you may find this link interesting having worked in the field(s) you do. Started with the passion of one man (Paul Kells) who lost his son in a work place accident. At a conference I witnessed him "selling" his dream to health care and law enforcement professionals. A decade has past and results realized and more initiatives being added. In a nutshell representatives from law enforcement, health care, businesses, public works, school boards, seniors groups/youth groups meet on a regular basis and pool stats and resources.
Examples that comes to mind are taxi`s park when idle in front of convenience stores/take outs giving added security to themselves and the store employees...young employees do not face leaving the store alone or walking home...fresh coffee as well ;)
Skate board park placed adjoining police headquarters and safety gear donated by local businesses.
Involved businesses do not hire students until they have completed a work place safety program which includes knowledge of workers rights and hazardous materials.
All stats such as EM visits to hospital are shared to correct the root cause if possible...be it criminal or icy sidewalk.
Martial artist such as our Victor Swinimer involved in programs initiated by the police department and local schools. I helped Victor in a couple of these and we were posted on the police web site in a positive way :lol:

It honestly does take a community to raise a child.
More than professionals...we need passion to teach our children how to protect themselves.

http://www.safecommunities.ca/whatisasafecommunity.php

Quote:
It is a community that puts people and processes in place to ensure that a blend of strategic activities and community involvement will have a significant impact on the rate of its injuries wherever and however they occur




Another way I like to think of it is...form a tribe. Each member be it warrior or healer etc has his her role to play.

Older children :D
http://www.bridgewaterpolice.ca/senior_citizen's_police_academy.htm

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Léo


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