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 Post subject: Re: Van..
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 3:29 pm 
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Stevie B wrote:
They absolutely are real, and they don't just get away with it..The Supreme Court in their infinite knowledge has just said that they are practicing free speech.
There is a group of older Vets that show up on their Harley Davidsons and block these idiots from the procession..As I said before, I'm all for free speech, but at a certain point it just becomes vulgar... Case at point Justin... :twisted:


Sure...the 'draft dodgers' of today...none of them has had the balls to serve and attempt to hide it behind those outlandish placards.

I am surprised that they walk with apparent impunity...one would think that somehow, sometime _ someone, enraged enough, would take a few of them out...especially Marines.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:00 pm 
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Valkenar wrote:
Mike spoke about verbal incontinence with one's elders. In my opinion I owe just as much respect to a 15 year old as I do to a 45 year old or a 90 year old (I am 31). Expertise in a specific domain is a different matter, but I don't believe that there's any general property a person can have that makes their ideas automatically worthy of greater consideration. Not rank, not age, not title.


That really wasn't my point (giving ideas different levels of consideration). It was about not being rude.

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 Post subject: Watch and learn...
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 11:36 pm 
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This is real life Justin....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMXzWjkLIAg

Now you have your 15 minutes od fame little boy... Go play with kids your own age... :lol: :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 5:27 am 
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mhosea wrote:
That really wasn't my point (giving ideas different levels of consideration). It was about not being rude.


Not being rude, specifically to elders? Admittedly, I get testier than a perfect person would. However, it seems to my level of rudeness rises in response to the level of rudeness first directed my way. Again, for a perfect person it wouldn't matter, but I've never claimed perfection. When people are rude to me, I can generally ignore it for a while (and indefinitely in some cases) but eventually I get frustrated and prone to sarcasm. If you look at that thread, I think you'll see I was entirely polite until Van started calling me a hoplophobe and a hypocrite and for a good while after that, but I did eventually get annoyed with it. And still, I didn't respond with namecalling, but just by being testy. So I would be curious to know how you think I was being rude that others weren't initiating.

Yes, "he hit me first" is an immature excuse for any poor behavior. And certainly I shouldn't take that bait. That said, in this thread I'm largely being criticized for immaturity, which makes me wonder why my response to being mocked is considered immature, but the mockery itself, or other's responses to my perceived rudeness aren't. Now perhaps this is where the elder variable comes in for you? That I'm held to a tighter standard because of who I am (Younger, lower-ranking in karate)? That's a principle I definitely disagree with. Consider that Stevie called me a "pinko commie faggot" and in this thread is threatening violence if he should ever meet me, all over comments that weren't even directed at him to begin with. Whether he's serious or not, how can you condemn me for "verbal incontinence" and ignore those things?

As I said in the other thread, I don't mind being insulted on the internet. Not in the sense of being personally hurt by it. But I also don't particularly feel bad about being sarcastic to people who are being hostile. While I do think it would be better to remain entirely detached, being a little testy does't seem like a terrible crime to me. What's interesting to me is that certain people (Van in this last instance) seem to start mocking me and expect me to just ignore it, but then get indignant (or outright furious) if I am less than perfectly polite in return.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 7:28 am 
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I commented at all, and quite briefly I might add, because I was shocked by the personal jabs in some of your responses to Van.

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 Post subject: Once again misquoting
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:53 am 
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http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... inko%20fag

You really like to misquote people don't you Justin? What I said is I will look forward to the day that I will run into you at a Camp or in the Dojo... And yes, you can take me very seriously!!! :twisted:
I don't come from a School where we all sit around and talk all night.. But to say I threatened violence is a lie. I'm sure that in your Dojo they must practice Kotekatai or maybe Kumite? I'm just saying I look forward to training with guys like you that think they have this whole thing figured out :lol:
With the way you speak to people, you must truly fancy yourself a Bad ass... So I absolutely do love training with Bad asses!!!
Like I said before.. This is why I really love Uechi Ryu... After just a few minutes with someone in the Dojo, you really find out what they are made of...Cold hard steel?Or a marshmallow filled with a lot of hot air.. :?:


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:57 pm 
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That's really a good question Justin.. Don't you think he watches these pages??? If you were one of my students, I would have a real long talk with you about your mouth (or in this case, your fingers)..
Your instructor was probably trained by GEM or Van in the first place..
So the only way I see it, is that your personal jabs towards Van has not only hurt you, but your Sensei as well... You have brought embarrassment upon yourself and your Dojo... Sad, very sad... Because it's all about you and your feelings and twisted propaganda right??? Like I said before.... Completely self absorbed...Disgusting!!!! Go bury your head in the sand!!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 3:12 pm 
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Justin,

Your own words continue to leap off the page and smack you in the noggin. Stop the childish whining and start acting your age.

Mike wrote
Quote:
I commented at all, and quite briefly I might add, because I was shocked by the personal jabs in some of your responses to Van.

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And what of the 'jabs' to Panther? Reread your posts.

As Bill suggested, you should develop the ability to shut up and move on…here is your first lesson: Bill posted
Quote:
A Meyers-Briggs ENTP also loves to debate for the fun of it, and will sometimes play devil's advocate in a discussion just for the sport of it. I grew up in a family of competitive extemporaneous speakers and debaters, so I get it.

But not everyone appreciates the pure art of debate - especially with emotionally charged topics. You are correct to want a rational as opposed to an emotional discussion. But it's disingenuous to claim so when one's "rational" debate stirs up raw emotions in others.

We all need to practice the fine art of enlightened communication. This includes knowing when to shut up, being able to laugh at oneself, and knowing when to change the subject.

Being "right" - whatever the hell that is - doesn't necessarily count. And continuing a discussion which isn't getting anywhere just isn't very smart. Again... the goal is to win friends and influence people. And if there are friends in need around us, it makes sense to tend to those needs first. Seek first to understand, and then to be understood.

There is a way to "think out loud" as you are trying to do in this discussion. But one must clearly state that ideas are being entertained, and not necessarily embraced.

This is a very similar situation to my family dynamics of late. We have a few people here who have lost loved ones. If we want to persuade our neighbors over to "our" view of the world, it's going to take a masterful effort.

And if that isn't going to happen, well sometimes it's best just to leave it alone. In doing so, sometimes WE are the ones who learn a little something.

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Van


Last edited by Van Canna on Sun Apr 03, 2011 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 3:14 pm 
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And here is your second lesson: Bill posted
Quote:
For someone who claims to value control of emotions, Justin; you show a remarkable lack of emotional intelligence. If your intent was to antagonize, well maybe I should retract that statement. Along those lines you've succeeded marvelously. But if your intent was to win others over to your point of view, well you've failed miserably.


Ever wonder why Bill wrote that?

So it is not just Van, Panther, or Stevie that think
You are immature and antagonistic.

And you keep throwing up the smoke screen of Van[and others] becoming furious…you don't seem to know the real meaning of the word….you are simply seen for what you are…a petty annoyance like a gnat that won't go away.

Why?

Because as Bill tried to point out and you keep ignoring is the fact you aren't mature enough to grasp your very own lack of sensitivity to people past interpersonal disasters bearing on a critical subject matter…

You have shown a remarkable inability to empathize with persons who have experienced family tragedies, choosing to fire barbs at them_ not realizing that an effective argument in such situations requires the thinking in story form of the terrible events experienced by others_ by first visualizing the 'picture' yourself.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 3:16 pm 
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And then you kept on antagonizing Panther, charging him with 'stepping on his soap box' and with your presumptuous 'therapy advice'…and here is your third lesson… Panther wrote
Quote:
It is interesting that you take this position only when there is something that is said and you can't refute it... Now... for the scars... They're physical... The only ones that have seen them are my wife and doctors. I don't play the "wanna see my scars" game.

You say that it is important to try and get perspective and (perhaps) counseling in order to make informed choices. Well... Here's where and why I do get emotional on this...

You have NO effin' idea WHAT counseling I have or have not gone through! NONE... I never saw YOUR sorry @$$ in the corner when I was up at night "trying to get perspective" on things that I was working through and I have made informed decisions even IF they are "incorrect" from your esteemed perspective. You see, you have shown that it isn't about guns... it's about control.



Yet you keep on expounding…on and on…how you were 'insulted' and 'victimized' in these discussions…nothing but a red herring if I ever saw one.

The more your fingers tap the deeper you seem to slide down the 'slippery slope'_judging by the responses you continue to get.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 3:18 pm 
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And here is your fourth lesson by Stevie
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Wonder what your Sensei would say?
That's really a good question Justin.. Don't you think he watches these pages??? If you were one of my students, I would have a real long talk with you about your mouth (or in this case, your fingers)..
Your instructor was probably trained by GEM or Van in the first place..

So the only way I see it, is that your personal jabs towards Van has not only hurt you, but your Sensei as well... You have brought embarrassment upon yourself and your Dojo... Sad, very sad... Because it's all about you and your feelings and twisted propaganda right??? Like I said before.... Completely self absorbed...Disgusting!!!! Go bury your head in the sand!!!


Keep thinking of this as you are about to pickup your toys and go home…Bill wrote
Quote:
…not everyone appreciates the pure art of debate - especially with emotionally charged topics. You are correct to want a rational as opposed to an emotional discussion. But it's disingenuous to claim so when one's "rational" debate stirs up raw emotions in others.

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Van


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 3:19 pm 
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Hopefully you will grasp the meaning of what Bill wrote…. it may also help for you to read the chapter 'When smart is dumb' in the excellent book by Goleman 'Emotional intelligence'

For your own good and before you get any deeper into the muck pile you have created for yourself, I am locking this thread and _for now ….also banning you from my page.

Thread is now locked.

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