The "count"

[CANDANeh]

but it always made for fun dialogue on the ride home.

You got that right Otto. Kind of bonds everyone together and no one tires of hearing the stories retold countless times in the future. Except the girlfriends and wives...once seems enough for them eh MA may not be as deadly as the comic ads portrayed but we can enjoy be a special breed

[Panther]

I always felt the karate sensei in the U.S. from the 50's, 60s, & early 70s were the real BAMFs... There was a moment, when I was young and not thinking, that I lamented not being part of that time. Then sanity regained my conciousness and I appreciated the fact that I hadn't had to contend with those trials and tribulations. That's when I decided to "learn" from other's experiences!

Back when I was young and could actually do some of this martial arts stuff, I had a situation that made me realize the legal ramifications that could come from any fight. Sooooo... having discussed this with a lawyer, my Shihan and getting some other advice, I put together my "challenge box". Only used it once. To wit:

One evening we had someone come in and "observe" class. At the end of a hard workout and advanced class, the students headed to the showers/lockers and the observer came over and challenged me to... everything. Rather rude... claimed to be a Ninja (it was during that craze, you know...) claimed to be a Dim Mak "expert"... said I was lucky he had decided to fight me "physically" instead of simply killing me with his chi & "death stare". (Yeah he actually said that.) I noticed his knuckles were pretty banged up and knew he had done some "hitting". His movements, talk and actions seemed to indicate that he'd done hard brawling/fighting too. Anyway, by this point a number of students were hanging around, wide-eyed and waiting to see what was going to happen. I shuffled them all out the door and there was one person (not a student, an older guy who helped clean up) that I asked to stay as a "witness". I opened my "challenge box". Inside was a "contract" that basically said that I absolve him of any liability in hurting or killing me and he absolves me of any liability in hurting or killing him, that he has of his own accord challenged me and I have freely accepted in a purely self-defense manner. Finally, neither of us or our heirs could take any legal action against the other person or their estate for whatever occurs. Also in that box was gauze, tape... you know... all the things you might need to prep your body for a fight... I started taping up my hands while he was reading the paper for him to fill-out and sign (there was also a place for me to sign). All of a sudden, the door was closing as the paper was fluttering to the floor. Dodged that one! Good thing... he'd have probably kicked my @$$!

[Van Canna]

Very true Panther…. the 50's, 60s, & early 70s were tough on any practitioner because of the almost constant overt or covert challenges as a dojo owner, teacher and competitor. Some 'sparring matches' were closer to real fights than not.

Then there were schools that promoted 'thuggery' in their students' cluster.
One dire example of this was at the Madison Square Garden once, during one of the All American Championships… where some group just would not take defeat on the floor and threatened us to 'catch up' down in the locker room for a real fight.

I recall a group of us banding together for safety as we went down the narrow locker rooms to shower and dress…

I saw one competitor walking around in a daze with one eyeball hanging out….then a full scale riot broke out on the floor amongst the various NY dojos fighting for supremacy…I saw police officers just scoot out of the place…they were smart enough to just let the idiots kill each other.

I have to smile at Panther's 'psychological box' trick he pulled on that jerk.

There are so many stories to tell…

One night we had a TKD wise ass show up at George's dojo wanting to kick ass. So Taro Tanaka, visiting from Japan, a real bad ass karate 'street fighter'…took him on…punched him in the throat and dragged him over the fire-escape so he could throw him down the street.

It took five of us to stop Taro.

I think the main problem with these guys was that although they all professed to know 'real fighting' none of them really had an idea of real street violence and were oblivious to the dangers of challenging karate students in their own house.

Incidents of 'dojo beatings' for some of these jerks were common…even in Okinawa…service men would have their asses handed to them in some dojo…when going in to challenge.

We had one real nut case…. who used to write on our forums….suffer the same fate in a NY Uechi dojo.

When will people learn.

[Stevie B]

Yep... They call it Dojo Yabori... The Japanese would come in too from other Dojos and challange too.. Usually the GI's just took a good leg kick and slowed down though.. But some of the Japanese were just crazy when the fought.. Many good nights of drinking at the Snacks on those nights
But I definitely agree.. The guys back in the 70's and 80's were who I started under in America, and they were IMO just a tougher breed.. If not physically at least mentally..

[Van Canna]

Now these guys...you'd have to see them in person to appreciate the following

Now, Lewis was arguably the greatest Karate Fighter in American history, and one of three people to be considered Lee’s private student/competitors at that time. The other two were Chuck Norris and Mike Stone. You might remember Stone as the guy who took Pricilla Presley away from Elvis.

Elvis is rumored to have tried to take a hit out on Stone, and no one would take it. Stone, you see, was an absolutely awe-inspiring fighter. Earned his black belt in six months. Was unbeaten in individual black belt competition.

Was never even scored on to the face! Considered an absolute animal, with a level of athleticism, speed, and aggression that was simply phenomenal.

I saw the guy on “the Guiness Game” trying to break the world record for the flying side kick, many years ago. He injured his leg on one of the metal clamps used to hold the target board. Was bleeding all over the stage.

But every time he made an attempt at the jump, he moved as if he had no injury at all. It was frightening to watch. What the hell kind of human being is THAT?

[Stevie B]

Mike Stone was the Dude that Broke the handcuffs?!? Big deal.... I do that every night and Lisa goes and buys more...

[Otto]

I first trained with Joe Lewis in 1973. It changed everything I did as a fighter. He came to my dojo in the eighties and nineties and taught many times. He was a nice man, but he might have been from Krypton. (no, really)

I'm not sure how to post pictures, but I'll give it a whirl.

This is Sensei at my house. He'd stay over sometimes while in town. I felt like a kid with Santa visiting.




This photo hung in my dojo. the caption underneath read "Wristlock this".He had hands like a bear. My expression was priceless.

[Van Canna]

Nice shot, Otto