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 Post subject: JOE KARATE
PostPosted: Sat May 22, 1999 4:43 am 
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A few gems from Animal Mac Young :

1] You may be Joe karate , but your martial arts training is not likely to protect you from a guy with coming at you with a tire iron or baseball bat !

Wait , you say ; what about my Seisan bunkai which we practice assiduously once or twice a week ?" Anybody who violates my sanchin is dead "

2] Generally speaking , most injuries that people suffer in confrontations are because of the " unexpected" ! And most people who come out intact know how to deal with __ and deal out _ the unexpected !

So how do you think you are prepared to deal with it ? Yea, I know__ lots of prearranged kumite` and mushin !

3] Most karate -kA , in a barroom brawl ; if the opponent is an old hand , who knows where the F** it's going to come from !

Ever seen a real barroom fight ? Ever come up against the "PIBU" [ pitcher of beer] technique out of the dark end zone ? Ask Rabesa sensei about "PIBU" !

4] Ever gotten a chain wrapped around your face ? Ever tried to block a chain coming at you for a facial ?




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Van Canna


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 Post subject: JOE KARATE
PostPosted: Sat May 22, 1999 8:28 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 12, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 25
Location: bridgewater ma. u.s.a
van,

Couldnt you use fred karate?? Or something like that. Just kidding

Ive been in bar rooms,during fights
with the other poeple im there with.
talk about the **** hitting the fan!!!
One secound your drinking having fun,
next someones in your face calling you
pretty boy cause your giong home with
the girl hes been buying drinks all night. but most of the time its who's
bark is loader.But i remeber good advice
someone gave me. If hes got a bat or a knive .you say WHATS THE MATTER YOU CANT FIGHT LIKE A MAN> then
say,If your goning to use that knive stay here im going to get my gun. that way your
out of the situation hopefully.if
theres no way out grab what you can
and maybe he'll clip you but remember
theres no way out.
chow

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Joe


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 Post subject: JOE KARATE
PostPosted: Sun May 23, 1999 3:33 am 
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J.D.-san ,

Good riposte ! Pretty sobering !

Hi Joe,

Okay we'll call it "Freddie Karate " { I like your style man , be sure to tell us more } !

When senseis tell their students they will learn self defense if they study any system they happen to teach but only if it is taught their way , save your money and go take tap dancing lessons !

Mac Young writes that in the big picture of life there no such thing as " you do this and that happens" __ he points out that in self defense you don't just learn the moves and expect to survive a real street fight ! " If the world didn't have cheap shots , ambushes, blind shots, traps, , muggings, egos and revenge , just being able to fight would be enough , but it isn't "

He also points out that martial arts today are being taught with compliant ukes who stand there like dummies taking your best shots ! Teachers do not know or mention to their students what goes down before and after the fight and they do not teach what to do if something goes wrong with a move which happens a lot !

A few diversionary tactics to pull in bars or coffebars as it pertains to liquids and salted peanuts are very interesting : Salted peanuts, when thrown at the eyes, create a great shotgun effect , especially when followed by full ashtrays !

Drinks , coffee cups , beer , wine and hot chocolate can startle and soak while you next pummel and flee !

The one he describes best is the men's room arena , a real flash point for lots of fights out of nowhere ! He tells the story of a friend who was confronted by two A** wipes as he was taking a leak ! He turned an p**** on them ; and while they were standing there in shock , he blasted past them !

So back to " Freddie Karate" { OK. Joe ? } ; you know all the guys who strain their necks to hear the 'true secrets kata / kumite`' from the old masters , the guys with the superiority complex because they have the "right stuff" and the right lineage; the guys who have attended 100 seminars and look down on you ; those are the guys you can usually laugh at when you see them spar under a mild touch of the chemical cocktail and watch them 'forget' all their blocks and techniques of doom and flail their arms about like newborn babies without any ring strategy [ today's tournament ] !

Those are the guys with the " turkey factor " { Mac Young } ; Domesticated " Turkeys" are so stupid that you can loose a whole flock of them in a rainstorm .One turkey will look up , and the rest will follow suit . Because their mouths are open , they drown !! Know anybody like that about to drown ?

And then there is denial ; people will read this post and go in denial ! Trouble is their subconscious will not allow them to forget !


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Van Canna


[This message has been edited by Van Canna (edited 05-22-99).]


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 Post subject: JOE KARATE
PostPosted: Sun May 23, 1999 4:43 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 19, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 55
Location: Portsmouth,NH,US
Dear Sensei Van Canna,
Great to see you again today. I was waiting for a wry comment on this forum about today's tournament, and you did not disappoint. As one who experiences the "chemical cocktail" rarely, but sees it often, I was excited after doing a little of both today. I had no ring strategy to forget, as this was my first tourney, but I did notice tunnel vision (totally unaware of anything but my opponent's hands) and "tunnel thinking" (reverse punch.) Earlier I heard a spectator say about a brown belt that she had "one technique repeated." Okay, it's good to have a nice collection of strategies with which to respond to an opponent, but the "chemical cocktail" can wipe out just about everything one ever learned -- so much for strategy. If JUST ONE decent technique survives the fog, then so much the better. I found the winner of the green belt sparring to be particularly good leading with a jab, following up with a slightly arcing reverse punch over his opponent's defence. Over and over it was applied with effect. The brown belt sparring was breathtaking at times, sheer delight to see such skill and strategy. Ditto black belt winners in both heavy and light categories.
...And then, as you noted, there were a couple of contestants who just didn't seem to be using karate skills. Anger and denial held hands, and charged headlong.
I appreciate your hopeful conclusion that at some level those who are in denial will not forget your post (assuming they read it.)
But even if they remain in denial, as some must, they at least provided many of us with a valuable lesson today.
May I end on a positive note, even if it is slightly off topic? I was, in sum, impressed with the comraderie I experienced today, especially from my competitors. Handshakes were often spontaneously followed by backslapping hugs at the end of green belt matches. I sincerely hope to see that fellowship survive over the long run.

Michael


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 Post subject: JOE KARATE
PostPosted: Sun May 23, 1999 5:10 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 405
Location: Tewksbury, MA USA
God Bless You, Michael!

I know that this is off topic from the original post, but I did not want to miss this opportunity to tell you how admirably you (and everyone else) performed today. Steve and I are very proud of your courage and your willingness to enter "the fray".

May there be 1,000 more just like you at next year's tourny!

Respectfully,

Gary

PS

Van-sensei:

"When senseis tell their students they will learn self defense if they study any system they happen to teach but only if it is taught their way , save your money and go take tap dancing lessons!"

CLASSIC!

And once again, thank you for your attendance, advice and support today!

G

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Gary J. Khoury
http://www.uechi-ryu.com/khoury


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 Post subject: JOE KARATE
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 1999 3:40 pm 
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Posts: 671
Van you wrote,

4] Ever gotten a chain wrapped around your face ? Ever tried to block a chain coming at you for a facial ?

I had a guy jump from his car and start to swing a heavy chain at me. I used the best defense available, my P.F. Flyers! I don’t think I ever moved so fast in reverse. I suspect I'd have a minimum of a large dent in my head if I didn't move fast. The guy I was with, ( a cousin of Lawrence MacD. From the old Norwood dojo, JHC, that was one tough family!) was too charged up to consider retreat and took the chain hard across his left side but managed to hang onto it and get control of it. With that the attacker dove back into his running car and screwed. He had no MA training, just a disproportionate ratio of b***s to brains and inherent toughness.

Kevin


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 Post subject: JOE KARATE
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 1999 8:28 pm 
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Kevin ,

Larry Mac Dougall ! How can I forget ! A fighting machine from a fighting family out of Newfoundland ; to them fighting was as natural as breathing ; when they went to a party for a friendly get together , instead of shaking hands they would throw punches at each other for a while and then have a beer with blood running down their noses ! He loved to smile when he fought Matches , remember ? The Harder you hit him the better he liked it and the stronger and more Determined he became !

The chain attack : Mac Young writes that such a flexible weapon is a bitch ; There are two defense ; either back off and don't get hit or go into the swing as a counterattack ! Timing and determination are the keys ! We should practice bunkais against chain attacks in the dojo ; be a real eye opener !

More words of wisdom : " Anything that's longer than it is wide can be used as an improvised weapon . This includes the guy sitting next to you . " { Doc's third law of improvised weapons } ! Like seizing the opponent's buddy or your own friend who started the fight hiding behind your prowess and using them as a shield as you move into the chain !

Cecil :

Your questions are good ! Keep the combinations simple with direct gross motor response mimicking the way the body would move / walk under stress ! One __ two kick / punch combos are good plus a take down instinct in the grapple that follows ! The chemical cocktail will impair the use of fancy combinations anyway and judges usually will not call anything beyond the first couple of shots !

This is real fighting as demonstrated by Josh Wiseman this week end !

Your helmet drills are a good idea ! Screw the peripheral vision bull S** ; most senseis who try to impress you with principles of improving your peripheral vision in katas or whatever { such as in our sanchin } are full of it as they have never been in a fight of any consequence ! The best trained in lethal force principles , such as police elite teams , are taught to slap themselves in the face / turn their faces with their hand after firing a handgun in combat scenarios to program looking to the sides and detect flanking attacks ! So train first in destroying your immediate target to the front then have your students slap themselves into turning their heads sideways left and right before relaxing their alert !

The reason why most "senseis" don't talk about "tunnel vision" or " tunnel hearing { cortical perception and auditory exclusion} , is because they have no idea what it means ; the first time they heard those terms was when they read this forum , and still persist in denial because of their beliefs in traditional bull S ** perpetuated by their ' lineage ' masters ! Try asking any one of them what those words mean and get ready for a big laugh !



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Van Canna


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 Post subject: JOE KARATE
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 1999 5:49 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 24, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 311
Location: Washington DC area, USA
"but I did notice tunnel vision (totally unaware of anything but my opponent's hands) and "tunnel thinking" (reverse punch.) Earlier I heard a spectator say about a brown belt that she had "one technique repeated." Okay, it's good to have a nice collection of strategies with which to respond to an opponent, but the "chemical cocktail" can wipe out just about everything one ever learned -- so much for strategy. If JUST ONE decent technique survives the fog, then so much the better. I found the winner of the green belt sparring to be particularly good leading with a jab, following up with a slightly arcing reverse punch over his opponent's defence. Over and over it was applied with effect."

And with this I will go into my questioning role given to me by Sensei Canna:

1) Are studying combinations a waste of time, as in learning to do punch-punch-kick or front/round/side kick in order, or are we wasting our time making sure we can throw two hooks, an uppercut and a jab following a side kick? My question is that I've been criticized for not throwing combinations in sparring (I prefer to wait and counter, look for holes, etc)--yes I know I'm still at the student level of tournaments (1st/2nd gup or kyu ring), been in three competitions and got trophies in each one without the combinations. Yet, the five or so REAL fights I've been in I really don't remember winning any of them by throwing combinations. I don't think I threw any combinations at all. Personally, I've never seen anyone throw more than a two-strike combination in a real fight. As MacYoung points out, no one has the total view on fighting even those that do it all the time.
So I ask for another view.

2) Why are so many instructors not talking about tunnel vision, or even tunnel hearing? Whenever I suggest that when the day comes that I have students I may do full contact with motocycle helmets or football helmets on the first thing somebody says is "But your students won't be able to use their peripheal vision really well", to which I say "But you can't really see that well on the sides when someone is fighting you anyway". Would the helmets be that much of a detraction---I'm thinking more along the lines of someone's skull not being fractured if they are really nailed.

Cecil

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 Post subject: JOE KARATE
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 1999 5:24 am 
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Posts: 311
Location: Washington DC area, USA
That phenomenon of reduced vision and hearing is fascinating.

I must admit after I started reading your forum, I realized that the tunnel effect can take place on me in non-combat but threatening situations, like near-misses in traffic as a pedestrian, or if someone startles me even jokingly or accidentally. I remember after a near miss on the way to work (DC rush hour is crazy some days) that was not too threatening mind you, I had trouble even READING a sign that I see everyday. It's something, let me tell you. You really can go into almost an animal mode. I finally have started to notice what that "reptile" brain does, and how POWERFUL it really is.

I'll go home and do as you suggest with the gross motor combinations.

If we could figure out how to master ourselves in that fog, I think we'd be on our way to having that mushin or whatever you want to call it. It is hard to stay focussed when you are in the thick of it and even remember to breathe, let alone do that special "cricket kick" (as one of my buddies used to call the fancier foot techniques that he instinctive knew would break down under stress).

Cecil

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