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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:04 am 
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Sorry all, been away a while due to business and stuff. I just wrote a reply on LinkedIn "Homeland Security" Group. It was in reply to this post when several members were debating the OSLO Killer's ability to get high capacity magazines via the mail from the USA. For reference the original article is here: "Congresswoman: Norway gunman touted lax US gun laws" http://on.msnbc.com/p5Ff4R

He wrote:

Quote:
love the arm chair quarterbacks. I participate in Arizona in a sport called Cowboy Action Shooting. steel targets set at 15 to 50 paces 2 single action revolvers with 5 rounds EA 1 pistol caliber rifle with 10 rounds and a double barrel shogun or A hammered pump usually 4 to 6 rounds you can only load the shot gun on the firing line and you move stations with empty guns or fired ammo in them holstered there are pistol targets 3-5 and rifle targets 3-5 and shot gun targets 2-4 on the average and they must be shot in the prescribed sequence or you get a time penalty of 10 sec == misses are 5 sec
Being as slow as I am and not really practicing I can empty at the targets with 1 or no misses in as little as 20-30 secs. And I am usually in the middle of the group.

there are shooters who and do this in 8 to 15 secs with no misses.

these are guns from the late 1800s.

The automatic pistols and rifles that are used in the some of the other events at the range are used by amazing shooters with split seconds for shots.

some where up the posts are facts and figure it only takes less than 2 sec to swap mags. banning weapons or mags is not the answer. it is as always the individuals responsibility and his moral fiber. if you ban guns only the criminals will have them.
if you ban knives or any other dangerous item someone will work out a way to do the dirty deed. If you are not a shooter you will never understand the stupidity of waiting for someone to arrive in minutes and bail you out when seconds count. every one should have to live thru a fire fight so they understand.

YOU NEED SELF SUFFICIENCY WHICH IS WHAT THE UNITED STATES WAS BUILT



My Reply:
Hi Leo, I was taken aback with your self-serving statement " love the arm chair quarterbacks. I participate in Arizona in a sport called Cowboy Action Shooting."

Do you really believe that your friends mentioned above could perform in a manner while lead is flying back at you? Ever been in a fire fight that you suggest everyone experience? The experience of the fight/flight phenomena dumping into your body? The ability to swap mags and return accurate fire drops immensely because of the dumping of the hormones into your system, adrenalin is one of them, and your fine motor skills become gross motor heavy, and hitting your plates goes out the window.

The growth of tactical shooting** started with the "Newhall Incident":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newhall_massacre

They outgunned with their wheel guns. The inability to load them, losing track of rounds expended, policing the ammo as done on a range, trying to load 6 rounds while being attacked by the bad guy rather than loading & firing 2 rounds to save your life by shooting the guy

The next was the FBI shootout in 1986- Miami The FBI's problem was that they were out-gunned. Some of the guys had .357, Semi-automatics of various types and magazines could not be exchanged or ammo from a .357 fit a .38, etc.. As well as type of ammunition and the beginning of officers taking head shots b/c the bad guys started wearing body armor :http://youtu.be/lBGfKtuo2AM or this excellent AAR:

http://www.thegunzone.com/11april86.html

Then the famous No Hollywood Shootout with the highly armed & highly protected by body armor and the police had to borrow weapons to save themselves and the public This is part 1 of 5 videos of the incident: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm1PEY8F4xE

A recent shooting that one can quarterback is the Kyle Dinkheller shooting a few years back: http://youtu.be/GX5kwVc9IOk

Many feel that the deputy was camera shy, afraid of civil liability, and held his fire until it was too late. From the article ''Slowly Developing Threats" written by Brian McKenna for "Police Marksmen Magazine" he writes "Under the incredible stress of Brannan’s relentless attack, Deputy Dinkheller fired with great rapidity but very disappointing accuracy (one hit out of 33 shots). Outgunned as he was, it is easy to see why this happened, and even to sympathize with him, but there is no denying that he may well have survived if he had returned fire more effectively." Once again his severe injuries and gross motor skills denied him the ability to save himself.

In another of Brian's article that he wrote for LawOfficer.com "Officer Down-A Warriors' Sacrifice" He speaks about the bad guy's ability to absorb multiple rounds and still fight on: "Resistance to Gunfire:
Mettinger absorbed nine rounds from Borders' .45—six of which hit him in the torso and two more of which literally severed his right foot—without any significant effect on his fighting ability. This would have been remarkable even if Officer Borders had been firing marginally effective rounds, but he was using .45 caliber Gold Dot ammunition, which is considered by many to be the best man-stopper on the market." Please see:
http://www.lawofficer.com/article/training/officer-down-warriors-sacrific


I am in agreement about banning high capacity magazines, but his reference to the sport shooting and the real life thing had to be addressed.

Rant finished.

** Tactical shooting in this note refers to Police Tactical Shooting as opposed to Military, etc.

Pss. Van, I believe that you know Fred Leland from Walpole PD? He has an excellent web page that you may enjoy:

Law Enforcement and Security Consulting http://lesc.net he also hosts an excellent group on LinkedIn of the same name.

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Jim Prouty
New England Budo Center


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:43 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:06 am
Posts: 1750
Location: USA
Ah, LinkedIn.

I have a LinkedIn account. I'm also present on Google+, Twitter, Facebook, Foursquare, etc... I just don't see a use for LinkedIn (at least Foursquare is amusing). Really, I have to wonder how many people actually get a job through LinkedIn, statistically. And how many won't, because they say stupid things in threads like the one above. :mrgreen:

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