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 Post subject: Entering the attack
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:50 pm 
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Watch this real fight.

Notice how the officer short stops the initial swing and connecting with target first.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdfSLnKM ... re=related

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 Post subject: Re: Entering the attack
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:58 pm 
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Hi Van Sensei.

I was at Richie Bap's tournament the night Tip fought Billy Blanks. In fact, I was one of the five KRANE Ref's judging that match. After the match and the tournament was over. I went out with a group of the other judgers and competitiors for dinner and drinks. Later that night, Billy and I got to tlaking and he told me that Tip was one of the VERY BEST and smartest fighters he ever faced.

In addition, in a earler match that night Billy was fighting. For the first time in New England, Billy introduced the "Cartwheel Kick". This was the first time we ever saw this type of kick, and in fact. Billy did score with it. He kicked the guy in the face. I remember very clearly, the head ref Lou Lazott stopping the action. he called us all into a huddle (Lou Lazott, Joe Campesie, Jon Cierri, Joe Esposito, and me). Lou then said to us - What the H&%$ was that????? We just laughed and said there was nothing in the rule book against that type of kick. So Billy got the point and won the match.

Good Days, Good Times, Good Fights.

Jay Sal

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 Post subject: Re: Entering the attack
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:39 pm 
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Hi Jay,

No question about the 'cartwheel kick' being effective in certain situations.

There was someone else also demonstrating the kick and it was fabulous to look at...it seemed as though they were flying.

But I watched that fight with Andre Tippet, and it seemed to me Andre always seemed to get in between the technique and score first.

As you know the 'trick' is to never let the opponent get off first so you can block and counter him...

The training is in reading the 'wheel' about to come and enter the 'eye of the storm' as Bill puts it.

This is how I fought a Henry Chow's top TKD fighter in the All American a match that went for 20 minutes as I entered his wheeling techniques, yanked him to the floor and punched him...but no point ever awarded.

It was that black fellow with arms crossed you see behind me as I walk away after the fight at Madison Square Garden.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Entering the attack
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:25 am 
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Van Canna wrote:
Watch this real fight.

Notice how the officer short stops the initial swing and connecting with target first.


And often. And then the other guy talks smack. LOL :)

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 Post subject: Re: Entering the attack
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:51 am 
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Right on Jason...nothing but a 'flailing jerk'...

The police/security officer looks like a good boxer. :)

Not easy to beat. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Entering the attack
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:03 am 
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Van Canna wrote:
Right on Jason...nothing but a 'flailing jerk'...

The police/security officer looks like a good boxer. :)

Not easy to beat. :lol:


Very pretty. :lol: Great form... but didn't seem to have much impact, other than keeping the other guy from tagging him (not a bad result, that).

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 Post subject: Re: Entering the attack
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:33 pm 
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The reason the security officer lacked power was , the lions share of the punches he threw were off of the rear hand ; normally this would be considered his 'power punch' but 90% of the time he failed to pivot :lol: 8) ............less fiber reqruitment less power....... :lol: 8) Just sayin......

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 Post subject: Re: Entering the attack
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:46 pm 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBo_e_OIFjU&feature=related

Incredible timing and each shot counts. Note his stance 8O

The following clip shows the beginning of the fight and the result of a well delivered punch or two

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6iFXWecsiw&feature=related

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 Post subject: Re: Entering the attack
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:24 pm 
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I've seen that before. Funny watching (again) the dude in the white shirt take himself out by doing his running jump kick, only to kiss the street with his head.

Robb, it's crazy, I know, but I think he was pulling his punches... not going 'through' the target, just snapping in the interest of speed (and thus sacrificing power). He pivoted some, but his feet weren't grounded when he did. By the time the blow landed, his rear foot was moving again.

That first fight is bizarre to watch. I mean, he's an armed security guard, trying to act like Muhammed Ali or something with someone just off the street. WTH?

The second is surreal. A single man fighting off five? Six? attackers, alone. And then the cops actually show up (in a longer, uncut version with no replays)! What's up with that? Since when do they show up when they're needed? LOL.

I love this one for entries, Van: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7369HUKO5ys&feature=related He just bulldozes into them, relentless and effective. Of course, if 'bully' #2 had counterattacked instead of trying to interject, it might have turned out differently.

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 Post subject: Re: Entering the attack
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:52 pm 
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Quote:
I've seen that before. Funny watching (again) the dude in the white shirt take himself out by doing his running jump kick, only to kiss the street with his head.

I love this one for entries, Van: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7369HUKO ... re=related He just bulldozes into them, relentless and effective. Of course, if 'bully' #2 had counterattacked instead of trying to interject, it might have turned out differently.


Always be careful what you program into your defensive platform by training ways.

No question the relentless 'short stopping' every opponent presenting himself is the only way to fight if you are going to stick around for the fight to begin with.

Here are some wise words
Quote:
If you ask any martial arts instructor about defending against a knife and he then proceeds to show you a technique that allows you to wrap the attacker up in a nice neat little package…run – don’t walk – out of his school!

If an instructor shows you how to dance around and stay out of harms way… you’re about to get sliced and diced in a real street knife fight!

Let’s get one thing straight – knife defense is like going through a wall of flame.

You should know that there will be pain involved, but how much depends on how fast and how hard you go through it.

Dancing around the fire will get you burnt to extra crispy.
You’re best bet is to go through it…and charge HARD!
The same holds true for knife defense.

Most people want to avoid the risk of getting cut.
So they dance around and provide look for an opening that makes you feel warm and fuzzy about not getting cut.

While this appeals to your natural aversion to pain and violence (and blood), it is incredibly and dangerously WRONG!

You see, in the real world, there’s a split second where your mind needs to grasp the reality of the situation (We call this the “OH #####!” moment).

One second you’re thinking about what this guy wants from you and the next “BAM!!!” He’s stabbing the crap out of you.

When the attack happens, it’s surreal, that’s why you need a method of training that puts you on auto-pilot.
You need to flip the switch and attack!


http://iscqc.org/blog/2204/knife-defens ... eet-fight/

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 Post subject: Re: Entering the attack
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:00 pm 
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The next thing or maybe the first thing to have to worry about is:

If I decide to fight...to enter...etc...

Will what I bring to the opponent be really enough to stop him, or is it going to piss him off even more?

Now envision your target:

This?Image

Or this?

Image

Think hard about this...it is the difference between life and death. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Entering the attack
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:26 pm 
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Jason Rees wrote:
Robb, it's crazy, I know, but I think he was pulling his punches... not going 'through' the target, just snapping in the interest of speed (and thus sacrificing power). He pivoted some, but his feet weren't grounded when he did. By the time the blow landed, his rear foot was moving again.


Jason, that was my impression as well. I think it's probably a good example of fighting the way you train. I should add, however, that I don't think the security guard had any intention of seriously hurting Mr. Gray Shirt. Looked like a monkey dance to me. Would have been nice if the video had recorded more of the lead-up.

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 Post subject: Re: Entering the attack
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:39 pm 
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My impressions of the security guard's display are:

  • Van is spot on in the security guard's ability to "short stop" the non-uniformed fighter. He did it by getting inside the wild (gross motor) swings of the less-trained fighter. Resting comfortably inside the vortex with head protected (both hands answering the telephone), he was in no danger. Great example, Van!
    ...
    That said...
    ...
  • His blows - while "pretty" from a sport boxing perspective - missed A LOT. Even his beautiful knee shots to the head missed. ALL of them. In my opinion (worth 2 cents and some change), the misses more than simple poor mechanics accounted for the length of the encounter. This contrasts with the other videos posted in this thread. Anyhow... go back and look at the video. Count how many blows actually hit square on the target, and on a part of the head/body that would have staggered his opponent. From my assessment, not many.
    ...
    But he LOOKED good. :lol:
    ...
  • Repeatedly and indiscriminately aiming at the head with boxer's fists - without protective hand gear - seems incredibly ill-informed (to say the least). Could it be that his little head said Go! and his big head said No! ??? Just a thought. Given what could have happened, he's lucky those fists didn't connect.
    ...
  • Per Mike's suggestion, it did look less like a self-defense or LEO encounter and much more like a Rory Monkey Dance. Give his profession and given that he was "in uniform", that seems like an incredibly stupid thing to do. When you put that uniform on you have a job to do. IMO (worth...) he was not serving his employer, nor was he reflecting well on the same.

Sports in general are great for martial arts. And boxing or "kickboxing" is a great place to learn how to mix it up, and to "keep your saw sharpened" (per Steven Covey in Seven Habits of Highly Effective People). But this seems like a clear example of where sport and the LEO profession didn't intersect in a productive way.

- Bill


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 Post subject: Re: Entering the attack
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:02 pm 
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accidental double-post instead of edit


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 Post subject: Re: Entering the attack
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:41 am 
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The security officer against the "thug" - while I can sit back and admire the security man's movement, his DT skills aren't worth squat, and I'm sure his DT instructor was pulling his hair out when he first saw that. That looked like a sparring match, not a Law Enforcement/Security incident. Damn, dude, take his butt down, don't be going the distance with him.

As for the Andre Tippet/Billy Blanks fight - I love Andre Tippet. As good as he was in football (NFL Hall of Fame) he is an even better Karate man. And Andre is one of the humblest, classiest, easiest going men I have ever had the privilege of knowing. He is a true Karate man. A Master. (Scary fighter, too. REAL scary) At the time of that match, Billy was my Instructor and best man at my wedding. So I watched as a fan, rooting them both on. I always described that fight as an "F you" fight. Two powerful RAMS charging with reverse punches to the chest. I sat on the floor along the out of bounds. The noise of that fight almost made me p** my pants.

The cartwheel kick - I know there are those that will disagree, but a cartwheel kick should only be thrown at short punching distance. You throw the lead in punch almost like an overhand right, but only as a lead in/fake TO YOUR OWN YOUR FEET, so you rotate, head over heels, within your own circle. Throwing it long sometimes works against those who have never seen it, or chumps who you can kick with anything anyway, but never against a good, aware Karate man. Throwing it tight - I'm sixty years old, I'll still hit you with it. (will too!)


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