Uechi-Ryu.com

Discussion Area
It is currently Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:27 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: CCW Advice
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 2:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 30344
I trained under the great John Farnam...
www.defense-training.com

He has some poignant advice for people who carry concealed weapons.

http://www.defense-training.com/quips/21July11.html

Quote:
Advice to legal CCW license-holders:

Most states now issue CCW licenses to non-police citizens with no criminal record. In those states, CCW licenses cannot be arbitrarily denied. They' re not hard to get, for the most part. The CCW license itself does not require the holder to carry a concealed gun, nor, for that matter, to even own a gun! It simply gives him the option, at his discretion.

Some states, such as FL, have had their CCW statute in place for several decades now. In other states, such as WI, its passage and implementation is very recent.

A few states legally require all CCW License holders to "promptly inform" police officers with whom they come in close contact (such as in a traffic-stop) of their legally-armed status. Most states have no such requirement. Even where there is such a requirement in law, the manner in which it is to be actually carried out by the CCW licensee is not specifically described.

Most individual police officers and police executives have no objection to these "shall-issue" CCW laws, and have in fact, secured CCW licenses for their own spouses and other eligible family members. However, some officers, even entire departments, still exhibit a depraved anti-gun agenda that has led to unnecessarily disagreeable, even menacing, confrontations with legitimate CCW licensees.

Here is my advice to CCW licensees:

1) Be in bed by ten o'clock! Police regard those who are up and about late at night as less respectable, and more dangerous, than "normal" people, who sleep during the night and are active during daylight hours. A " nocturnal" life-style is fraught with peril and unhappiness!

2) Have a "normal" appearance. Police officers automatically focus on " unusual" things and circumstances. That's their job! Simply looking " normal" goes as long way toward putting police officers at ease. Who insist on covering themselves with tattoos, dyeing their hair purple, and having a " face-by-Ace-Hardware" will discover that they garner a great deal of attention, most of it unwanted.

3) Keep your pistol discreetly concealed, and don't talk about it. The vast majority of people with whom you associate should never know it is there.

4) Stay away from places where people are in a highly-emotional state. Emotionally-charged sporting events, political rallies, picket-lines, et al are good places not to be. When confronted by highly-emotional people, politely disengage and withdraw.

5) Don't hang-out with boisterous, slatternly, rowdy people, nor with people who have been drinking excessively. They will have a unhappy evening. Don't join them!

6) Be a courteous, cautious, conservative driver. Don't speed and don't show-off. Who do had better get used to talking with police!

7) When pulled over in traffic by police, don't voluntarily bring up the subject of guns, unless required by law.


In that case, put it something like this, "Officer, I have a permit. Would you like to see it?" Drive a " normal-looking" car.

Be polite, but boring. Don't "interrogate" police. Answer questions truthfully, but don't be chatty. Don't volunteer information. Don't answer questions that weren't asked! When around police, don't verbalize the term, "gun."

8) When berated, even threatened, by police, do not answer in kind. Remain calm and polite. Indicate to them that you want to talk with their supervisor. When bombarded with accusations and threats, indicate to them that you want your lawyer personally present before answering any further questions. Repeat as necessary.

9) Don't fail the "attitude test!" Displaying a belligerent, arrogant, combative attitude around police will almost certainly lead to caustic confrontations and a cheerless evening. Be always even-tempered, polite, reasonable, and in-control, never loud and defensive.

Here is my advice to my brother police officers:

1) Get over it! It's the law now. Your personal opinion is irrelevant. Besides, no class of citizens represents less of a threat to police officers than do legal CCW license-holders. They are the ones we should fear least!

2) Don't ask legally-armed citizens why they own, and carry, guns. Frankly, it's none of your business! They are merely exercising their rights as Americans and as citizens of your state. It is no different than attending the church of their choice or writing letters to their Congressman. None of those activities are immoral, nor illegal.

3) Don't pointlessly humiliate and denigrate people legally carrying concealed guns. No legitimate purpose is served by stripping them of their dignity by disarming them in public and in front of their families and friends.

Legally concealed guns need to stay in holsters, out of sight, and out of conversation. The last thing you want is a gun being waved around inside a car, because you indicated that you "wanted to see it!"

A little respect goes as long way, both ways!

/John

_________________
Van


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CCW Advice
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 30344
Mas Ayoob
Quote:
I absolutely agree that fear of the aftermath can cause fatal hesitation. I think the best way to deal with it is by training the practitioner in what to expect in that aftermath, and how to handle it.

The person who is confident in their ability to cope with what follows, will be more confident in following their training and making the right decision, and acting immediately, when force does have to be used.

Best,
Mas

_________________
Van


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CCW Advice
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 16, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 671
Van, what's the law in MA? I can't see anywhere in the MA gun laws about disclosure in a traffic stop.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CCW Advice
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 30344
Hi Kevin,

Happy holidays to you my friend.

In Mass there is no requirement to disclose your status as a permit holder and or a concealed weapon carry in a traffic stop, unless you are asked.

The officer may ask if you carry any weapons in your car.

Careful how you answer it.

If you do have a gun in your car, as opposed to having one on your person, be sure the weapon is next to you, within arms' reach and covered up under something...not in your glove compartment.

So you tell the officer, if asked, that:

1. yes _you do have a license to carry and
2. You do have a pistol
3. Then tell him where it is
4. Then ask him what he wants you to do at that point.

~~~

Do not call it a gun...

Officer:Do you have any other weapons?

You say no.

You do not identify any other object as a 'weapon' such as knives, blunt objects etc.

If asked, you say they are tools/rescue equipment, which they probably are.

It is recommended by lawyers that you do not give voluntary permission to search your vehicle.

Stay still, hands on the wheel, inside lights on if a night stop....

Ask permission for any move you make...such as to reach for license registration etc. telling the officer before hand where you keep it...

Above all be polite no matter what.

~~

If the officer does not ask you if you have a concealed weapon in your car or on you...

But asks you to step out of the car for some reason...

Then it is recommended that you volunteer the information about your pistol in the car and or on you.

~~

I am not a lawyer...this is not legal advice...always best to ask an attorney in the know... :)

_________________
Van


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CCW Advice
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 16, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 671
Thanks, Van.
Happy Thanksgiving to you!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CCW Advice
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 30344
Look at what can happen...a horror show :(

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/you-fu- ... ffic-stop/

_________________
Van


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CCW Advice
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 30344
http://www.expertlaw.com/library/crimin ... stops.html

_________________
Van


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CCW Advice
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 30344
Other views:

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/ccm-co ... ncounters/

Quote:
Some states require CCW holders to notify police they are armed on contact with them. Many more states do not have such a requirement, but is it a good idea anyway? The answer may vary depending on whom you ask, but regardless of what state I’m in I err on the side of caution and tell law enforcement officers (LEOs) that I am carrying. My reason is simple: I have yet to meet the cop who likes surprises. I prefer to tell them I’m carrying, rather than have them find out on their own.

Thinking back to my own time in blue, I encountered people who had CCWs and I appreciated their telling me they were armed. I did not appreciate the few times I had to find out about it on my own! Besides, most cops don’t know who we are when they encounter us in their official capacity as guardians of public order and safety. Anything I can do to demonstrate good faith is good for both me and the officer.


But then...some people have indicated that by telling the officer about a 'gun' ...you may cause an over-reaction on his part...he may then want to search your car etc.

No easy answer.

_________________
Van


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CCW Advice
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 30344
Kevin...this is a good resource.

http://www.walpolepd.com/firearms_main.htm

_________________
Van


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CCW Advice
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 30344
Kevin,

Here is a video of Mas Ayoob on the subject matter...

http://www.gunsandammo.com/2011/05/27/t ... by-police/

_________________
Van


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CCW Advice
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 16, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 671
Thanks, Van. Good stuff.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CCW Advice
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 30344
Hi Kevin,

Yes it is good to read all of what is recommended...but then again no guarantees.

From my conversations with gun safety trainers [for the purpose of getting a license] in my area...the predominant opinion is as J Farnam puts it
Quote:
When pulled over in traffic by police, don't voluntarily bring up the subject of guns, unless required by law.


But then again it is a crap shoot based on why you were pulled over, what-overall- impression you make on the police officer...the tone of your voice...etc.

And most important...we can't make any assumptions as to how an individual police officer will act with us during a stop.

In many ways a traffic stop resembles a street confrontation where you will be nervous, where you will have an adrenaline surge that might make you 'babble' some...and not think or talk 'straight' along with some 'fumbling'...

I recall two of my personal experiences in the past:

After been pulled over for traffic infractions and opening up my wallet to get my driver's license, the officer also saw my carry license.

In one case I was not carrying...so I told the officer ...and he let it go.

In the other case, a State trooper, after seeing my carry license, and after my telling him I was armed, he made me get out of the car, place my left leg on the rear bumper, then proceeded to 'disarm' me by removing a .38 snubby from my ankle holster, unloading it and 'securing it'...giving it back to me only after I was back in my car as he was done and pulling away.

He told me he was doing it for his own protection.

Had I kept the permit hidden in the wallet, most likely nothing would have made him 'uncomfortable'...

Then again, who the hell knows.

Every officer is different and will treat you based on his own beliefs and perceptions of you personally and even the car you drive.

What is important and sometimes hard to do...is for someone with a permit...to ignore road 'temptations' if you know what I mean.

_________________
Van


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CCW Advice
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:31 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 30344
Hello Kevin.

The Walpole Police PD did reply to my email as follows:

1. Could you kindly inform me if there is a requirement in the State of Mass to have to immediately notify a local or state police officer during a routine traffic stop that the driver of the car and or its passengers have a concealed carry weapon permit and or have a firearm on their person or in the vehicle?

Walpole PD
Quote:
NO, THEY ARE NOT REQUIRED BY LAW TO DISCLOSE THAT;HOWEVER, SHOULD THEY BE GIVEN AN EXIT ORDER FROM THE CAR OR IT COULD BE VISABLE, IT WOULD BE SUGGESTED FOR EVERYONE’S SAFETY. THE OFFICER NEVER KNOWS WHO THEY ARE DEALING WITH DURING A STOP.


~~

2.Even if no such law ...is it something the officer would want to know anyway...and would he get upset if he were to find one?

Walpole PD
Quote:
OFFICERS ARE TRAINED IN HOW TO DEAL WITH IT AND THEY WOULD INITIALLY REQUEST TO SEE THE LICENSE TO CARRY.


~~

3.Would you recommend that the police officer be placed on notice regardless of any law?

Walpole PD
Quote:
I THINK MOST OFFICERS WOULD APPRECIATE THE NOTICE SO THAT THEY ARE INFORMED; I HAVE HAD IT HAPPEN BEFORE. I THINK IF AN EXIT ORDER WAS GIVEN THAT THE PERSON SIMPLY IS UP FRONT AS TO MAINTAIN SAFETY.


~~

4.Can a police officer tell by the vehicle's plate number if the owner has a license to carry?

Walpole PD
Quote:
NO, THEY WOULD HAVE TO INSPECT THE ACTUAL LICENSE TO CARRY, BUT THE COMPUTER WOULD NOT TELL THEM.


~~

May be best not to volunteer the information that you are carrying a concealed firearm during a routine stop, unless you are told to exit the vehicle.

If i were ordered to exit, I would tell the officer I have a license to carry and wether or not I were carrying on my person or in my car. [Remember that if the weapon is in the car, it should be within your arm's reach and it should be concealed from view...so I was informed by a safety instructor]

Even if not ordered to exit, but, depending on the nature of the stop and noticing the demeanor of the officer[upset etc.]

I would then very politely put him on notice of a license to carry and of carrying/not carrying at that point in time.

I would also tell him of other 'weapons' such as OC pepper spray on me or in the car...possibly for defensive use against dogs.

Also remember that any other questionable items such as a knife etc.

if asked...they are nothing more than utility/emergency/rescue tools.

Never refer to them as defensive weapons.

I would not carry a Billy club or other such item in the car as a Billy club is illegal.

_________________
Van


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CCW Advice
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 16, 1998 6:01 am
Posts: 671
That's great info, Van. thanks for checking that out.

Kevin


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CCW Advice
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
Posts: 30344
Hi Kevin,

A correction here, as per a State Trooper friend of mine:

I asked the Walpole police > Can a police officer tell by the vehicle's plate number if the owner has a license to carry?

Their response: NO, THEY WOULD HAVE TO INSPECT THE ACTUAL LICENSE TO CARRY, BUT THE COMPUTER WOULD NOT TELL THEM. <

I passed on this information to my Trooper friend for verification at the State level....his response
Quote:
Van,
If I was to run your plate it would tell me everything about you as far as the criminal justice information system (CJIS) goes.

At least on our state police computers. Not sure what the locals use.
When I run your plate it will then give several tabs to click onto.

I can bring up your registry picture, driving record, arrest record, warrants you might have and your LTC/FID card info. It will include whatever guns you have registered.

_________________
Van


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group